A NEW "old guy" to the forum looking for a horn...

[hokkmike]

Hi everybody...My name is Mike and I am glad to be here. I started playing BBb tuba in 1957. I played bass in elementary, high school, and college. As an adult I have played on and off with horns borrowed from my school district where I work and from local bands when they are not in use. And, while I am grateful, those from local bands have been in pretty rough condition and hard for me to play. Now, current policy at my school is that staff may NOT borrow equipment even if it unused/unassigned to any student except for the direct instruction of a student from the district.

I am looking for a horn so that I can be a regular part of our church's brass group. We have played each Christmas as I have enjoyed it immensly. The group is looking to expand its venues. I want to pick up either a BBb tuba or baritone/euphonium. I am belwildered by the choices and see tons of beautiful looking but I suspect not such good quality knock-offs out there. Truth is, at this point, I don't know good from bad (anybody want to sell me a bridge?) and I am trying to educate myself real quick.

So far the following are on my "let's take a serious look at these" list; Eastman EBB331 4/4 3 piston valve tuba, FREDERICK--F-Schmidt-3-Valve-Tuba, and finally a Yamaha YEP 321.

Any steering in the right direction that you can provide would be much appreciated. I am probably a little out of my league here as I am an intermediate player at best and play just for the fun of it. This site was recommended to me by a local self-described "tuba-nut" (I like that) so I thought I would try it out.

I realize that mine is probably a well worn and wearying question for many of you so I appreciate your kind indulgence....

[Gilligan]

I just did a writeup on the Schiller American Heratage 4-Rotory Valve Tuba for another thread. I would recommend it highly

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42562&start=12

I just switchedf from a Yamaha 321 and have played many other horns. The Schiller plays better than an old Miraphone 186 i've played, better than my old KIng 1241, better than the Mienl Weston 6/4 I played in the Army and was only $1930 new in nickel silver.


Just found another thread for an F horn made by the same company

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42339

Hope this helps!

Gill

[imperialbari]

The Yamaha YEP 321 in my opinion is the most serious instrument among those you mention. Personally I prefer my own YEP-641 (discontinued model) because it is heavier with a larger bore, but aside from the first generation, which was designed to rust and make the valve plating flake, the Yamaha YEP 321 is considered a reliable euphonium.

If my choice was a Yamaha YEP 321 versus a knock off tuba, I would go with the 321 any time. It will not be able to fill the role of a tuba, but if you are going to play in a church environment, the Yamaha YEP 321 will be able to support tenor and bass vocal lines very adequately.

Klaus

[skeath]

Being a tuba player, I would always prefer a tuba over a euphonium to support a brass choir. In that case, I would highly recommend a King upright bell BBb, 3 or 4 piston valves (4 preferred). They are sturdy, well-made American tubas with parts readily available, and there are lots of them on the used market.

I have a friend in a situation similar to yours, and he has a St Petersburg BBb (4 rotary valves). He likes it, it seems to play well, and I think the prices are reasonable.

There is a lot of buzz now about the Chinese clones. While it appears that the quality of these is rapidly improving, it is probably too early for a novice to get into that market; there is a higher risk of getting burned. Stories abound of water keys and valve linkages falling off, and the bad ones will be the first ones in the used market.

There are certainly other choices, but in your situation I would buy used for now. There are many tubas for sale on this board (some exotic, some very mainstream), and it is very, very unlikely you would have a bad experience buying from someone here. However, if you are set on just one model, you may have to wait awhile, so look at the listings every day, and ask about some. You might find a good deal on a Cerveny or a Conn you hadn't considered.

BTW, in your case, best not to delve into Eb or F tubas right now.

Regards,

SK

[tclements]

May I suggest, decide what kind of playing you will be doing. If you are doing mainly band and large ensemble playing, you'll want a larger horn, nothing smaller than a 4/4. If you are going to be playing in a dixie band or a brass qunitet, or a small church orchestra, you can get away with something smaller. Remember, it is easier to lighten up on a larger instrument, than to get more sound out of a smaller instrument (with some exceptions).

In any case, do not buy a 3 valve tuba. You'll never play it in tune and you can't get all the notes you may need to play.

Good luck!

[hokkmike]

Your comments are much appreciated and I am indeed investigating your links. I have, in just the few responses gained here, learned much already. My thanks.

[TUBAD83]

low opening bid / no reserve / for sale by honorable tubenet member / good instrument / custom work on upper #1 and #3 slides done / cases included

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0553306465

This is an excellent choice (This was my first horn at my first duty station when I was in the army). You can not go wrong with this tuba!

I have the same tuba that Gill has and I love it--but its a BIG (25lbs) large bore horn, and if you're not used to playing one, it can be a challenge control wise especially in a church. The King 2341 is not as heavy and is a bit easier to control.

If you are concerned about dealing with 2 cases, I suggest you get a portable cart for them--thats what I did for my Conn 20J and it works perfectly.

JJ

[The Big Ben]

An Olds 099-4 would work well for you. It's a 4v , 3/4 horn wish would be good for the ensemble/church work. It has a big sound and is very easy to play in tune. Only down side is that they have been around since the 70s and frequently were school horns so there are some thrashed examples out there. However, if you get one which is in good shape or been skillfully rebuilt, you could have a winner. Price: one that plays but might not be very pretty- $1.5K, Plays well, looks good $1.5K to $2.5K. It's light and easy to carry and, without a case, easily fits in the back seat of my Toyota Camry with room to spare.

I have one and it plays well. I didn't pay much for it and I've had a full valve job done on it and I am under the $1.5K threshold. Would like to get as much as $1K 'prettin' up' work done but it is a great playing horn right now.

[bort]

I was going to suggest an Olds O-99 as well. Not bad tubas, and can usually be found at a good price.

Otherwise, a good rule of thumb (to me!) is to get something "normal," mainstream, and a known name brand. If you ever want to sell/upgrade later on, you'll get a higher return and will sell a lot faster.

[Rev Rob]

I would concur with Bloke and Tubad83 regarding the King 2341. I am currently playing a King 1241, a slightly older version of this tuba. It is a good starter horn, bright sound and fun to play. Hauling around two cases is a pain, but Tubad83 found a good solution. If you get this horn at just above $1K, you will have made a good purchase. Keep us informed as to how this process unfolds for you. All the best.

[ken k]

i will echo the king 2341 or 1241 (older model) suggestion. Bloke's link looks nice; there is also one for sale in tubenet's "For Sale" page by J.c.Sherman

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42554" target="_blank

Another nice BBb tuba that is a little smaller than the King is a Conn 5J (four valves) or the 12J (three valves). You can often get a three valved horn cheaper than a four valved horn and for most casual type playing it would work just fine.

ken k

[hokkmike]

imperialbari - I have seen your face somewhere before, hmmmmm? Oh, well. Thanks all for the advice EVERYONE. I am also looking at euphoniums as I have said.

Would Schiller be a good euphonium brand? The rest are Kings, Conns, and Yamahas. (on my Ebay watch list) I don't think anybody would have a problem with those. I am also just about convinced that 4 valve is strongly preferred over 3. Am I on the right track?

I assumed that is STRONGLY preferred to buy an instrument that comes in good case? I don't know how easy it is to buy a case after the fact and match it to your horn.

I have played many years on and off, but always with somebody else's instrument. So, in the respect of sorting and buying I am as novice as you can get.

[The Big Ben]

Cases: Taylor Music has 'universal' cases which work well. The pads inside can be adjustable for specific instruments. The quality is good and the prices are reasonable.

http://www.1800usaband.com/" target="_blank

[Donn]

I've never had a real tuba case. I've never had a super expensive tuba, either, but they haven't all been bottom-of-the-barrel beaters. For me, if the tuba comes with a case, great, but they just haven't and it isn't an issue. It depends on where you're going with it - of course, they're vulnerable traveling around out in the open, but they're also a lot more manageable. A hard case for a full size tuba is a pretty awkward package.

[TUBAD83]

Based on what you will be doing playing wise, the only brand on your watch list I would consider is Yamaha--the YEP321 to be exact. The only Schiller euphonium I would seriously consider is the Elite Compensating Euphonium (it also comes in a yellow brass lacquer finish). Kings/Conns are good marching horns but not the best for concert work (and stay away from those double bell and those oval euphoniums!). And yes, 4 valves is very preferable to 3--the 4th valve will help with intonation and extend your lower register (just like tubas). Willsons and Bessons are the most popular pro euphoniums (every euphonium player I play with has one or the other---or both) and you will probably want to get one later if you decide to go with playing euphonium.

I have NEVER understood why new super expensive tubas are sold either without cases OR the case that it comes in is not built to last a long time. My tubas came with cases, but they are not designed for long distance travel (actually my 20J cases are, but they weigh a ton!). Fortunately, you have a number of options if you select a tuba that does not come with a case.

JJ

[ken k]

As for euphoniums four valves are nice but you probably would not need a compensating type four valved horn. Both the Yamaha 321 and the King 2280? four valve Euph are nice horns)