Tubas in jazz bands?

[b.williams]

DevilDog-2013

Don't listen to people who say the barifonium (actually it is a euphonium) or the tuba isn't right for jazz. Rich Matteson, Brad Felt, Maynard Ferguson, Dave Bargeron, Dick Nash, and many others have shown and continue to show how wrong that notion is. Any instument can be played properly in any style by a good musician. So, listen to as many players as u can to hear what is possible. Imagine what might be possible. Take that barifonium, tuba, bass kazoo, or whatever and practice your butt off.

[Ian Stewart]

There is a Gil Evans recording where the tuba plays the 3rd trumpet part (sic). If I remember correctly it is the Live at the Royal Festival Hall LP (first part). And yes you are right, it sounds really strange - but I enjoyed it.

[DevilDog-2013]

Today was an epic day for improv work. I used to suck at improve, I was stuck in my little oompah groove. But today we played at a grocery store to raise money for our band (about 800 bucks in 5 hours!) and literaly, 90% of what we played was improv. We would all just switch off making up a bass line, then just jam. And I've come a long way from where I used to be.

So almost all of us blew our lips, and played in the pouring rain for 5 hours, but we had SO much fun.

And b.williams- I'm kinda stuck in between instruments. But believe, me, you don't have to tell me to practice xP I'm one of the kids that actually likes to practice. I'll sit and play my scales for hours if i have to.

THanks for the replies!!!!

[b.williams]

Awsome!! Don't decide. Play um both!!!!

[DevilDog-2013]

Learned bari last weekend. Talked to band director. She wants me to play it for most pieces. Playing it this saturday at our spagetti feed... This shall be interesting!!!!!! Only a week of playing. Dang, it's a whole different animal! And it's killin my chops switching from bari to tuba every morning. And I am planning on learning bone for next year.

Just thought I would fill 'yall in

[Bob Kolada]

Cool!

barifonium (actually it is a euphonium)

The term is a combination of baritone and euphonium, and is used to indicate either/or.

You are better off with a valve trombone a euph/bari will not have the right blend you need. Yes it is the same octave, but the timbre is wrong for Jazz.

If by "jazz" you mean people who are "classical" in another universe with all their insistencies and assorted weirdness, then yes you are correct.
In JAZZ, the euph can sound just fine and is surely a much better choice for a tuba player playing bass trombone parts (devildog?) than having them them brap along on valve trombone underneath what are probably bigger bore horns playing much higher or having them suffer on a slide horn when musicality and the love of music is already there.
If you're really worried about tubbing out, stick with a shallower mouthpiece and stick it. Any halfway decent euph does just fine around low C with even a 6.5AL. If you want something bigger, since you -are- a tuba player, I really like my Yamaha 60B as a large tenor/small bass/euph crossover mouthpiece- fairly large, shallow, and with a nice wide rim. It even does an ok bass impersonation in my contra. But whatever.

A nice chromatic euph is a wonderful utility horn- contrabass trombone parts (done it), light quintet (done it), general bass trombone covering for someone who is not interested in ever learning a slide (shoulda done it...),... even just playing euph parts! I would do horrible things for a big bore front action euph with a large quint valve and a short 6th valve (like an F tuba up a 4th). Drool...

[David Richoux]

A few noted or lesser known jazz Baritone Horn/Euphonium players:
Gus Mancuso
Maynard Ferguson
Charlie "Bird" Parker (very early on in his career )
Marc Dickman
Nat King Thomas
Bernard McKinney

I have recordings by several of these guys, but the rest came up in Google quite quickly. I am sure there are a few more (Dave Bargeron played Euph with Gravity...)

[Biggs]

realize that in the history or jazz the euph has not been used in any style, been a part of any arrangment of instruments used in jazz, and is not commonly associated with jazz

I get what you're aiming for with regard to timbre, but this is just a flat-out lie. I have several Sun Ra, Archie Shepp, JJ Johnson, and Hypnotic Brass Ensemble albums that prove otherwise. I think those names represent a pretty broad spectrum of styles and arrangements throughout the history of jazz.

[David Richoux]

I know the original question was about large bands, but often acceptance of "non-standard" instruments in ensembles depends on examples of soloists who present possibilities to bandleaders or arrangers.
If people say there is no role for Baritone, Euphonium, or even Tubas in jazz bands - well , they just have to be educated about jazz history and the amazing range of musicians who play the music.
By the way, Jazz education is a bit weak on the topic of tubas in jazz - surprisingly, the topic comes up even on historical jazz forums about how the double bass was the only "real" early bass - the tuba, helicon, or sousaphone were only used for street parades or recording sessions where the string bass was awkward or could not be heard. This has mostly been proven false, but the myth remains!

[DevilDog-2013]

Picked up bone fairly quickly. I learned slide positions within a day. I found that if I think of it as tuba fingerings, I can figure it out (ie. 3rd position is first valve). Took me a few days to get the tone but it all of a sudden clicked. I am definetly going to play it next year for jazz... If there is a band...

[bearphonium]

I am just a little worried at the tenor of this thread, until I realized that we were discussing a horn, and not a middle aged member of the (lower case here) tnfj.

I'd say, if you can't play 'bone parts on tuba, get a bass trombone. They're fun, in a kinda chainsawy way...

[Elbee]

Trombonium? Saw one on eBay today...

[DevilDog-2013]

I wanted to try bass trombone, but don't have one available. And when I talked to my director about it she told me one of the trombone players are going to buy one for next year. So, pretty much shot down xP

[LowBrass55]

Playing Tuba in a Big Band is a great place to start . . . I do it every time the part says 'Tuba' in the upper left corner; but in the real world, Big Bands want a Bass Trombone. I picked up Bass Bone in my early 20's and now, 30 years later, I have more fun playing both Tuba Gigs AND Bass Bone Gigs.
Good Luck.

[TCtubaKingConn00]

i did a research paper on jazz this past year and jazz started with tubas then slowly switched to string bass around 1930.

[SousaSaver]

In high school, I played an arrangement of "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" with a Tuba part. Pretty cool stuff.

There is plenty of Tuba in dixieland jazz and in the jazz groups in New Orleans.

I think that much of why Tuba might be frowned upon in the jazz world (by some, not all of course) is the common stereo typing that goes on around people who don't understand Tuba: that Tuba is too loud, or sounds clunky, or only goes "oom pah" and is good for nothing else. I don't think this, I am just trying to spread the good word and see MORE low brass in jazz bands.

Howard Johnson's doing it!

[TCtubaKingConn00]

My personal opinion is a band needs tubas and bassbones not tenor bones.

[SousaSaver]

Another place you can play in Jazz and Big Band groups is your local Shrine organization. Where I am located, our local Shrine Band has a Jazz band, a dance big band and a concert band. It is a good place to try.

[SousaSaver]

Courtesy of Dave Werden in another post...

[Harvey Hartman]

Here my Bass valve Trombone.. I play the 4th bone part in the Rajah Shrine Dance Band with it. Its alot fun..Look in the schools old band instruments room or on ebay, for the parts. I would be happy to help you making one .. Its a Olds Bell with a (F) and a king Baritone 3 valve set ,the tubes are king size... So you end up with a 4valve Bass bone
hh3valves@aol.com" target="_blank" target="_blank or 610-367-7232 Harvey Hartman Harvs Happy Horns
http://harvshappyhorns.blogspot.com/201 ... mbone.html" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank