New Cimbasso design/Practice instrument

[imperialbari]

These almost look like tromboniums

They kinda are Contrabass tromboniums, bell up.

I agree on that. The wrap of the valved contrabass trombones may have implications on the directionality of the sound and on ergonomic matters, but they still are valved contrabass trombones.

I didn’t see the pitches mentioned for the two samples shown. F for the piston version and BBb for the one with rotors?

Stowasser was a family of makers with branches in Bohemia, in Budapest, and apparently also in Milano. Maybe only an agency in the latter place. I only have horribly bad photos of a Stowasser BBb cimbasso. And the source wasn’t Pamela’s Music (in the UK), which carries lots of antique oddities, but I didn’t see cimbassos among these.

Klaus

[bisontuba]

Hi-
Very interesting thread--now does someone has a 19th C tutor/method for cimbasso--probably in Italian--that might have a photo/woodcut of what they are calling cimbasso?
mark

[imperialbari]

Could be interesting, but were there even tuba tutors back then? Weren’t bass trombonists and tubists just trombonists moved down? The British situation being slightly different as they moved euph players down. When did the low brasses get their own teachers? Did Roger Bobo have a tubist as his main teacher?

Klaus

[Wyvern]

Weren’t bass trombonists and tubists just trombonists moved down?

Weren't the original tubist in fact horn players moved down? Thus the use of F tuba in the orchestra

It would be interesting when tuba tutors were first employed at music colleges - my guess would be not before the later part of the 19th, if not the 20th century?

Could it have been that there was no standard cimbasso in Italy - different orchestras used different configured instruments, some tuba shaped and some valve trombone like?

[Alex C]

The "original" cimbasso, or "corni di basso" is a serpent derivative (or, as some are researching, the serpent may have come from Italy...) loosely based on Frichot's Bass Horn (Corni di Basso). Cimbasso or Gimbasso or other uses, along with serpentone, were all for open-hole bass instruments in C (ish) generally with zero or very few keys.J.c.S.

Thanks! Very helpful. Interesting project, too.

[J.c. Sherman]

Hi-
Very interesting thread--now does someone has a 19th C tutor/method for cimbasso--probably in Italian--that might have a photo/woodcut of what they are calling cimbasso?
mark

What we call an cimbasso is what is used now for cimbasso parts. It wasn't known as a cimbasso then... it was "trombone basso/trombono basso (sp?)" or trombone contrabasso, trombone contrabasso, verdi, tuba Verdi... but all new names for a new instrument. Thus, today we have to distinguish between the modern cimbasso (CB valve bone) and the cimbasso (serpent).

But what played the cimbasso part historically and during the transistion... as far as I know more research needs to be summarized, but ophicleide (both keyed and valved) was employed rather quickly for those parts, and what was available - especially when performed outside Italy - was any composers/engravers guess. "Cimbasso" carried the day for "low thingy" for a while... but we still have to cover these parts. On what? Except for Verdi and Puccini (almost never tuba) you have to decide... but unless it says "basso tuba," chances are the modern chimp will serve you well.

[Wyvern]

A bit off subject, but I had to smile at concert this evening by a top Italian symphony orchestra. The program included Verdi and Puccini, both of which were (very nicely) performed using CC tuba. You might say that was because they were touring, but that did not stop the tubist bringing an F for the Mahler 1 solo.

Made me wonder how often cimbasso are used in symphony orchestra (even in Italy), or are they mainly confined to the opera house?

Having said that, I do plan to try out my travel tuba for future performance of Verdi Force of Destiny.

Jonathan "who very much enjoyed the concert"

[Bob Kolada]

Any chance of a video demonstration of how it sounds and plays (please show low F and E as well!)?

[J.c. Sherman]

Any chance of a video demonstration of how it sounds and plays (please show low F and E as well!)?

I think that can be arranged >:)

J.c.S.

[Bob Kolada]

Also I'm still waiting for a video of those 2 contrabones (I recorded mine and will again!); any day now....

[J.c. Sherman]

Little piece of news on this instrument; just heard a delightful performance of "Pine of Rome" using this instrument; the player did a great job and I definitely prefer this over a tuba. I got great feedback from the conductor as well.

J.c.S.

[pgym]

Could be interesting, but were there even tuba tutors back then? Weren’t bass trombonists and tubists just trombonists moved down? The British situation being slightly different as they moved euph players down. When did the low brasses get their own teachers? Did Roger Bobo have a tubist as his main teacher?

Knellar Hall (the Duke of York's Royal Military School) apparently had professors for ophicleide (Samuel Hughes), bombardon (Thomas Sullivan), and euphonium (Alfred Phasey) in 1862. (A separate article on Phasey dates his appointment as Professor of euphonium to 1859.)

[Bob Kolada]

Here's some more pictures of that newer horn BRsousa posted-
http://www.tubaforum.it/foto/G&PMaggio2 ... io2008.htm