Cerveny? B&S? Yamaha? Meinl Weston? Miraphone?

[Nicholas]

It is the school's horn. Sadly, I need a 4th valve, but our school district only has one horn with a 4th valve, and another student in my section is playing due to me hating the feel of the horn. The horn was never good. The school will not buy us new tubas. They pump money into our football team, that has only won 3 games in the past 2 years. Our band boosters do nothing regarding instruments. They take care of uniforms and visual objects for marching band. Our marching band does corps. style marching. Plus, our state is cutting down school budgets.

[The Big Ben]

It is the school's horn. Sadly, I need a 4th valve, but our school district only has one horn with a 4th valve, and another student in my section is playing due to me hating the feel of the horn. The horn was never good.

You didn't answer the question: what is it?

[Nicholas]

It says J.J. olds & son

[Rick Denney]

It says J.J. olds & son

That would be F. E. Olds and Son. And depending on its vintage, it could be an excellent (if a bit small) O-99, or it could be much newer and a rebadged something else. Snap a pic of it with your cell phone and attach it.

Rick "not all three-valve tubas are junk" Denney

[Nicholas]

It honestly says JJ. But I'm taking the picture now

http://img718.imageshack.us/i/dscn0181o.jpg/" target="_blank

[The Big Ben]

It honestly says JJ. But I'm taking the picture now

http://img718.imageshack.us/i/dscn0181o.jpg/" target="_blank" target="_blank

Looks like an Olds 099 to me. I have the 4v model and it plays pretty well.

My thoughts on 3v horns: There is a term in photography which has been said many times to beginning/average photographers who want to buy lots of gear: Start with the body and the standard lens. This will be perfect for 80% of your work always. The other 20%? Lots more money for the advantages of the extra gear. However, if you can't make a nice, clear, interesting picture with the standard lens, all the extra gear is going to do you no good.

I bring up photo gear because Rick and I share the photo hobby. A 3v horn is much like a camera with a standard lens: It's good for 80% of what you do. The 20% you get with the 4th valve is down in the bottom of the horn and, as I've seen with my 099-4v, very much worth the extra cost. However, as with the camera, if you can't play in tune and in rhythm and with good interpretation with a 3v horn, adding a 4th valve isn't going to help you. So, if the horn is in adequate shape- no air leaks from broken solder joints or leaky spit valves, the Olds should be fine until you can afford something which is significantly better. And, if you will truly apply yourself with this horn, you will be ready when you can afford something better.

[Rick Denney]

It honestly says JJ. But I'm taking the picture now

http://img718.imageshack.us/i/dscn0181o.jpg/" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Yes, that's an O-99. The Olds that made the O-99 ceased to exist in 1978.

There was Frank Ellsworth Olds and his son, Reginald Birdsall Olds. So, look again--the letters are sometimes stylized and hard to read. I don't how many York tubas I've seen on ebay that were labeled J. W. Dork by the sellers, who were just not looking closely enough at the script on the engraving.

The current F. E. Olds is just the name. The original factory in California was shut down in 1978 and everything since then has been an import from somewhere else. The current line is from Asia and none of them have the front-piston design of the O-99.

The O-99 is pretty well regarded. It's small, and it only has three valves, but it plays in tune and nice sounds can be made on one. You could be doing far worse. From the picture, it does not look as though it has been used all that much unless your school mates are less destructive than most modern students.

On cameras, since Jeff brought it up. I have lots of cameras. Dozens of them, in fact. But the only camera that made enough money to pay for itself was even then an old Mamiya C-3, for which I paid $100 in the 70's. With a large flash, I shot weddings and portraits and did quite a bit of commercial work with that camera, providing me with spending money in college and after. All the cameras I've bought since then are just like my tubas--stuff I bought because I had the money and wanted it, and something about it intrigued me. Some of it had features I wanted for specific applications, but I didn't expect any of it to make me an artist. My photographic technique was built on a very simple camera with no automation (and no battery). I compare what I learned with that sort of a camera to what other photographers learned using modern fully automated cameras, and it seems like they ask awfully simple and obvious questions. Moral: There is little of value that you can't learn with an O-99 at this point in your life.

I played a plastic King sousaphone at your age, and my first tuba that I owned was a bottom-line Besson Stratford that had been used (more productively) as a weapon of war, judging from the zillion dents on it. I would have been much better off with that Olds.

Rick "the answer lies within you" Denney

[bort]

The O-99 is pretty well regarded. It's small, and it only has three valves, but it plays in tune and nice sounds can be made on one. You could be doing far worse.

I owned an O-99 at one point in my life. It was serviceable for band stuff, sounded decent, but definitely had its limits... especially if a band director wants "More tuba!" This tuba can only be pushed so far while upholding a good tone, dark sound, etc. Sort of like the 3/4 Yamaha tubas. They are fine tubas, and quite useful. But if one wants to hear a BIG tuba sound, that simply ain't it.

[Nicholas]

I've played some other tubas in the past, and I absolutely can't stand the tuba I use now. I am not a fan of the upper register. I've had a friend of mine who is the best player my school has ever had, and one of the best in the regions (for his age), and he said I need to get off this tuba, and I've had a Yale graduate for a bass trombone performance who also plays the tube saying I need to be off of it ASAP.

[The Big Ben]

I've played some other tubas in the past, and I absolutely can't stand the tuba I use now. I am not a fan of the upper register. I've had a friend of mine who is the best player my school has ever had, and one of the best in the regions (for his age), and he said I need to get off this tuba, and I've had a Yale graduate for a bass trombone performance who also plays the tube saying I need to be off of it ASAP.

I guess you've made up your mind that the tuba you have is no good. Do you have a private teacher? If not, can you afford two or three lessons from at least a brass specialist if not a tuba specialist? Anonymous advice from TubeNet isn't nearly as good as advice from an expert who hears and sees you play.

Good luck.

[toobagrowl]

^ Why are some of you so stuck on him not buying his own used BBb tuba?
He has already stated several times that he does not like the Olds tuba he is playing on and that he wants to buy his own. That's why he made this thread. The kid loves music, plays in a youth orchestra and plans on majoring in music ed or performance in college. Maybe, just maybe, he has "outgrown" the little Olds tuba. Give him some credit here!

Nicholas, here are a few good-very good BBb tubas that you can get used for 3K or less that you might like:

- M-W 25 (it's rare but sometimes you can find them for that price).
- Yamaha 641 (kinda similar to M-W 25)
- B&S PT-1/ VMI 2103 (B&S = VMI, same factory - the big Neptune CC tuba is made by VMI/B&S).
- St. Pete 202N/202L.

[Nicholas]

Yes I do. My high school teacher played trumpet in the blue coats for almost 5 years and graduated from slippery rock with a performance and education degree. One of my private teachers attends slippery rock on education and plays trumpet. And I plan to study in the coming summer months with the student that played tuba for my school.

[k001k47]

I would absolutely love to own this horn, it is out of my price range, though. Unless you have an extra 2,500 to give to me, it is unattainable right now.

You said you'd be getting more, so I figured you'd have the money to buy it.
People really seem to like the chinese copies of the 1291, so that's definitely a cheaper option. I've never played one, however, so I can't comment on their reliability.

[Nicholas]

The friend that was going to help me out has been out of contact for a while. Parents declined the offer to him helping too.



Edit: what about this?
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=43866" target="_blank

Put some money in it to fix the dents?

[The Big Ben]

Edit: what about this?
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=43866" target="_blank" target="_blank

Put some money in it to fix the dents?

The pictures aren't the best but it could be a good one. I had a 2340, which is the 3v version, and it was easy to play in tune. That series King has been around in different versions for a long, long time. It would treat you well and, if you wanted to do so in the future, you probably could sell it for what you had in it. The price is within your means and you would have extra money for some repairs or a gig bag or whatever.

Would be worth following up on.

[rodgeman]

The friend that was going to help me out has been out of contact for a while. Parents declined the offer to him helping too.



Edit: what about this?
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=43866" target="_blank" target="_blank

Put some money in it to fix the dents?

Or here is one that does not need work.

http://www.dillonmusic.com/HeleoCart/Pr ... 94196.aspx

They put there name on it.

[Rev Rob]

Hi Nicholas, every once and awhile folks will post some possible purchases of tubas that are in decent shape. This is such a possibility, unfortunately it has been sold, almost for a song. But with some minor repair to remove the dents this would have been an excellent horn for an up and coming high school player.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42426" target="_blank

[Rick Denney]

Edit: what about this?
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=43866" target="_blank" target="_blank

Put some money in it to fix the dents?

I've rather have a decent 1241 than an O-99 any day. It's much bigger and can hold its own in a large ensemble. The earlier 1241's were arguably better than the late 2341's, until the new 2341 came out (the new one has a fixed upright bell, rather than the tall detachable bell of the earlier models). These have withstood the test of time and play very well when it reasonable condition. Price is appropriate.

It is certainly an instrument you can learn on, and make music on, until you decide your direction.

Rick "who can think of much more expensive choices that would not play as well" Denney

[toobagrowl]

The old King 1241 is a good tuba - I played on one (along with an OLD M-W 25 and Cerveny-made Musica BBb) my first year of college. It is a tall tuba with a huge 22" bell and has a sweet sound. Somewhat easy to overblow/blat if you are not careful - but sometimes I didn't mind

The Dillon tuba that Rodgeman posted is a copy of the Yamaha 641, which is a good BBb with a Meinl-Weston-ish sound: deep, full, focused.

Here is a HB BBb at a REALLY good price that someone previously posted: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/ ... 68708.html" target="_blank

[TUBAD83]

I had a 1241 when I was in the Navy School of Music--even though it was a bit of a pain dealing with 2 cases, it was a pretty decent tuba--got me thru school just fine and I'm sure it will be a good axe for you.

JJ