Rite of Spring highest note?

[Leto Cruise]

Hello Tubenetters,

Can someone please englighten me by telling me what the highest note in The Rite of Spring part is for Tuba 1? I've heard it's a Gb above the staff, can anyone confirm this? If so, at what point in the piece is it? There is a part where the tubas seem to be playing in unison in "Procession of the Sage" but in different octaves. Am I hearing the part correctly or is a horn doubling the tuba an octave higher?

Here is a link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieSjTTSBAGA" target="_blank

From what I understand, the notes are G#, A#, C#, A#, and back to the G# sustained dotted half note. Are both tubas playing the same thing at this part? I notice a slight dissonance when the C# is played, can anyone explain what is going on here?

[Mojo workin']

I am 99.99% sure that it is a g flat above the staff, in the first half of the piece. The two tuba parts play quarter notes f third line to g flat above the staff. I have heard tale of one player handling the f quarter notes and the other playing the g flat quarter notes, to achieve less clams from the minor 9th skip in that tessitura.

[imperialbari]

Took a look in the score and copied the tuba lines from the said movement. The relationship between the Wagner Tuben in Bb and the real tubas has been a topic of its own often heatedly discussed in horn forums: are they in Bb alto (trumpet range - which would be MOST unusual for WT’s or are they in Bb basso (band baritone range)? When the composer conducted a recording session rather late in his life, he was asked about which octave to play the WT parts in. His reply was something to the effect of : How in h... would I remember that. It is 50 years ago I wrote this.

The C# dissonances come from the 1st trumpet playing a D a minor ninth above, which starts a beat before and ends a beat after the tuba C#.

[imperialbari]

:

[Leto Cruise]

Thank you for the visual representations! However since Wagner Tubas aren't commonly used now, does this mean that the top line is played by a french horn in treble clef, or is it played by the 1st tuba player reading in bass clef? (Meaning 1st note would be Db above bass clef)

[Jeff Anderson]

I think the spot you're referring to is in the second part of the piece, the Glorification of the Chosen One. The Gb's are in both tuba parts, in unison.

Jeff Anderson
San Francisco Symphony

[imperialbari]

Large symphony orchestras have their own sets of Wagner Tuben. Orchestras so big that they basically have two or even more horn sections each of 4 players often have one of these quartets specializing on Wagner Tuben. I have a Hoyer F WT with a 5th dependent valve in the 4th slide. It takes a lot of practice to play securely on WT’s.

Smaller orchestras rent sets of WT’s. bloke has outed his opinion on the success rate of the constellation of extra players and WT’s.

Klaus

[Leto Cruise]

Great, thank you all for the tremendous help! I have learned valuable knowledge.

[imperialbari]

Stravinsky loves minor seconds and diminished ninths. And he must have trusted his tuba players, as he lets them enter on that high Gb while all other brasses play an F. and when the tubas play F the rest of the brasses play E natural:

[pgym]

Stravinsky loves minor seconds and diminished ninths. And he must have trusted his tuba players, as he lets them enter on that high Gb while all other brasses play an F. and when the tubas play F the rest of the brasses play E natural:

Or maybe he hated the Ballets Russes' tuba player and wrote it that way so Diaghilev would have an excuse to fire him.

[imperialbari]

Considering the instruments used the Rite’s tuba parts are not particularly high. One rather has to wonder what audible effects the lowest notes had.

Klaus

[Alex C]

Stravinsky loves minor seconds and diminished ninths. And he must have trusted his tuba players, as he lets them enter on that high Gb while all other brasses play an F. and when the tubas play F the rest of the brasses play E natural:

I have always believed that Igor wrote this part for French tubas so the high Gb wouldn't be that much of a reach. Most of the early ballets were written for Diaghilev who had them premiered in Paris, Stravinsky lived in Paris. French tuba makes sense.

What about the low D's, etc.? The French tuba is related to the cimbasso/bass trombone family and the low register playing would be very accessable and was intended to be quite visceral sounding, IMO.

I love hearing the 2nd tuba hold that high E qiarter note full value at the end of the first part. It's one of the best orchestral dissonances ever!

[Steve Marcus]

What about the low D's, etc.?...the low register playing...was intended to be quite visceral sounding, IMO.

That low D in the Tuba II part at the beginning of the second part of the piece is muted. So there's your visceral sound.

I love hearing the 2nd tuba hold that high E quarter note full value at the end of the first part. It's one of the best orchestral dissonances ever!

It's also fun to play as that E is the highest of a sequence of 6 whole tone steps.

[TonyTuba]

I love hearing the 2nd tuba hold that high E qiarter note full value at the end of the first part. It's one of the best orchestral dissonances ever!

ever hear anyone say that it is a wrong note, and should be an Eb like the first tuba part?

[Alex C]

What about the low D's, etc.?...the low register playing...was intended to be quite visceral sounding, IMO.

That low D in the Tuba II part at the beginning of the second part of the piece is muted. So there's your visceral sound.

Well you're right. You sent me back to the part and I was thinking of the low Eb's at 53 (in the old edition). Don't know why I remembered them as D's. So... corrected:

What about the low Eb's, at 53 boys and girls? The low register playing...was intended to be quite visceral sounding, IMO.