Rank in Army service bands

[Brown Mule]

I am old Army Vet(Comissioned Officer,Infantry, Airborne) and have a question about observed rank of service band members?? What determines whether you attain Specialist ranks or Command type NCO rank(sergeant, staff sergeant,etc)? Also, Are only directors in service bands able to attain Commisioned rank? Can service musicians attain warrent officer rank?? Could maybe one of you Service band members set the ole Army Mule straight on this???? Thanks .

[ai698]

For the Army it's pretty easy- civilian acquired skills. You have to be able to play before you can get into the band field. 11B's have to be trained to become infantrymen.

[chhite]

There is only one Specialist rank currently in use in the Army, that of E-4. That is also the highest pay grade that a Soldier may possess upon initial entry and attend basic combat training. Once graduated from AIT and assigned to his(her) first band, the Soldier will have to wait until he meets time in service and time in grade prerequisites before appearing at a SGT promotion board. The same applies for a SGT wishing to become a SSG. Soldiers wishing to becomes SGTs or SSGs must score highly on their physical fitness test, qualify well on their primary weapon, complete civilian and military education requirements, and earn awards. Deployments or operational experience, possessing the C1 skill identifier for higher instrument proficiency, and other skills also count towards promotions. Promotion cutoff scores are posted each month based upon the Army's need to promote to the next rank. Promotions to SFC and higher are determined by centralized boards held once per year and Soldiers are selected from all eligibles by Sergeants Major from across the Army.

Warrant officers are selected from within the band field from applicants that have submitted packets. Applicants have ranged from SGT to SGM and yes, a SGM was recently selected as a warrant officer candidate. Potential officer candidates must also submit packets for consideration and then some are selected for a live audition. Civilians that are accepted must pass basic training then successfully graduate officer candidate school, then attend the Army School of Music to be schooled on the ways of Army bands. Some enlisted Soldiers have been selected to be commissioned officers but most go the warrant route. Currently, officers (O1-O6) are assigned to Army Bands Large (TRADOC, FORSCOM, USAREUR), special (TUSAB, Field Band, USMA Band), Staff Bands Officers, and School of Music command personnel. Senior warrant officers are assigned as commanders of Army Bands Medium and Small and junior warrants are assigned as executive officers to Medium bands. This has the potential to change in the next few years with a proposed update to the field structure. Too much to go into here but just keep watching.

Hope this answers your questions.

[Brown Mule]

There is only one Specialist rank currently in use in the Army, that of E-4. That is also the highest pay grade that a Soldier may possess upon initial entry and attend basic combat training. Once graduated from AIT and assigned to his(her) first band, the Soldier will have to wait until he meets time in service and time in grade prerequisites before appearing at a SGT promotion board. The same applies for a SGT wishing to become a SSG. Soldiers wishing to becomes SGTs or SSGs must score highly on their physical fitness test, qualify well on their primary weapon, complete civilian and military education requirements, and earn awards. Deployments or operational experience, possessing the C1 skill identifier for higher instrument proficiency, and other skills also count towards promotions. Promotion cutoff scores are posted each month based upon the Army's need to promote to the next rank. Promotions to SFC and higher are determined by centralized boards held once per year and Soldiers are selected from all eligibles by Sergeants Major from across the Army.

Warrant officers are selected from within the band field from applicants that have submitted packets. Applicants have ranged from SGT to SGM and yes, a SGM was recently selected as a warrant officer candidate. Potential officer candidates must also submit packets for consideration and then some are selected for a live audition. Civilians that are accepted must pass basic training then successfully graduate officer candidate school, then attend the Army School of Music to be schooled on the ways of Army bands. Some enlisted Soldiers have been selected to be commissioned officers but most go the warrant route. Currently, officers (O1-O6) are assigned to Army Bands Large (TRADOC, FORSCOM, USAREUR), special (TUSAB, Field Band, USMA Band), Staff Bands Officers, and School of Music command personnel. Senior warrant officers are assigned as commanders of Army Bands Medium and Small and junior warrants are assigned as executive officers to Medium bands. This has the potential to change in the next few years with a proposed update to the field structure. Too much to go into here but just keep watching.

Hope this answers your questions.

Thanks--------What aroused my curiosity was an experience recently watching an Army field band concert and I saw 2 trumpet players sitting side by side ;one was a specialist E-4 and the other a staff sergeant.I wondered if some musicians went up the specialist ranks as soldiers did way back when I was in. Thanks again for making it very clear.We had some electronic specialists that went on up as spec 5's and spec6's.Also motor pool people.

[chhite]

Most likely, that Specialist is a new, "probationary" member of the Field Band that will, after that period, be wearing SSG rank. One clarification about the Special Bands; the enlisted members have their own promotion system and do not compete against the rest of the Army. Their systems are in-house and each band manages their own program.

[ai698]

Most likely, that Specialist is a new, "probationary" member of the Field Band that will, after that period, be wearing SSG rank. One clarification about the Special Bands; the enlisted members have their own promotion system and do not compete against the rest of the Army. Their systems are in-house and each band manages their own program.

This is true for the DC and other special bands like the Army Field Band or Pershing's Own where you come in as an E6. The E4 could be on some kind of probation or something else. They do their own things. If it was a "regular" army band, not a special band, everyone comes into the band field as an E4 and goes to the School of Music. For active duty bands, they go through the regular promotion boards and point system for E5 and E6. Since the band field is over strength, chances for promotions just got harder. Reserve band also go through their promotion boards and point system.

For Army National Guard bands (like mine), we're slotted. We have so many positions per rank. If a band has all it's E7, E6, and E5 slots filled, E4's aren't going to be promoted until someone retires, separates out, or a Klingon promotion happens (my favorite kind ). They are boarded, see if they're eligible for promotion (points, no flags for PT or weight). In our band, we have a couple of E4's that are on their second 6 year enlistment and could finally get promoted to E5, where they'll be until a slot opens up to E6.

[skeath]

everyone comes into the band field as an E4 and goes to the School of Music.

That may be true, but if so, it is a change. When I enlisted, musicians were allowed to audition for direct assignment to a specific band, if they found one that would accept them. If they passed the audition (it was a pass/fail sightreading test), they were passed over the School of Music.

I was accepted for the US Continental Army Command Band (now TRADOC) by taped audition, then went to an Army post near home to audition live. I passed that test, and was assigned directly to USCONARC out of basic. Of course, I arrived as an E-2, and had to work my way up to Specialist 5 like everyone else.

I would be surprised if that was not still an option. It would be a waste of time to send someone with a degree in music to the School of Music, which is remedial at best.

[chhite]

There is no "passing over" the SOM. All Soldiers seeking the 42R(insert instrument identifier here) must attend the SOM. There is more to the SOM than just a condensed music theory and performance course. The duration of the course, once up to six months long, has been shortened to ten weeks for a couple of reasons; to get the Soldiers to their units quicker and to recognize that new Soldiers entering the band field are more educated and proficient than ever. Many, if not most, have at least undergrad degrees that have already prepared them to be performing professional musicians. The average age has also gone up which says the Soldier has already had to pay his/her bills by working/teaching, etc. and they know how to get things done on their own(translation-grown up and moved out of their parents' house). They will learn how the newer modular structure of the Band field works in both garrison and deployed environments and what will be expected of them.

The audition process has recently undergone changes. No more scales, three prepared selections of varying styles to take no more than five minutes total, and quickly prepared music that one will see for a short time then perform. Not immediate sight reading but something akin to it, still realizing that it's a skill that is needed to be a professional. Points are awarded for each category and extra points can be earned by performing a solo, doubling on another instrument, or singing. There are minimum scores for each level of schooling; AIT=20, Advanced Leader Course=24, Senior Leader Course=30. There are a total of 40 points available.

This is not to say that Soldiers were any less capable in years past. We have been able to accomplish quite a bit in our long history. The Army and School of Music have turned out some stellar musicians but we've also seen many just get by. It's just like the civilian world; some can cut it, some can't. We also have to recognize that things change regularly and to ignore those things probably hampers our ability to get the job done with the least amount of resources and personnel. We also have to recognize that more time taken for training that doesn't really prepare a Soldier to do his job is not only wasted time, it's wasted tax money. We have adjusted our training to meet today's and tomorrow's needs, saved time and resources, and gotten a capable Soldier/musician to the field to do the job he wants to do and the Army needs him to do. The same applies to the advanced courses. Shorter courses, more relevant training, and operating as we would in our bands.

Probably a lot more than anyone wanted to know, but I got on a roll.

[Rick Denney]

It would be a waste of time...

I didn't think that had any role in the gubmint decision process. I've had to take training where I was significantly more qualified than the instructor on the subject material just because it was the usual practice.

Rick "for whom it often had to do with checking boxes, building relationships and sharing experience more than learning material" Denney

[b.williams]

Well said/written chhite. The mission of the SOM is to provide basic to advanced levels of instruction geared toward preparing Sailors and Marines for the challenges of performance within a wide variety of military ensembles. The challenges of performing within military ensembles go way beyond what one learns in college. A big part of the challenge is mental toughness. Part of that preparation is learning how to deal with adversity. It takes time to be a productive member of a military ensemble.

[Andrew]

In the UK up to the 1980s a career as a services musician was an excellent choice for a junior musician (joining in their late teens) or a music postgraduate because there were very many more bands than now. It was then relatively easy and quick to obtain NCO rank, Warrant Officer/Bandmaster rank and commissioned rank as a Director of Music. Music postgraduates could expect to be accelerated to 2-stripe corporal as soon as their basic services-training (as opposed to musical-training) was completed. Now there are FAR fewer service bands and the supply of postgraduate musicians is very much greater. People stay longer in the services and it takes far longer to achieve promotions. The competition is fierce but nevertheless tuba players always seem to be in demand

NAVY:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Marines_Band_Service" target="_blank" target="_blank
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/royalmarine ... /index.htm" target="_blank" target="_blank

ARMY:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corps_of_Army_Music" target="_blank" target="_blank
http://www.army.mod.uk/music/music.aspx" target="_blank" target="_blank

AIR FORCE:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Air_ ... c_Services" target="_blank" target="_blank
http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafmusic/" target="_blank" target="_blank