gasoline as a cleaner

[Chadtuba]

I've been doing some reading on the Conn Loyalist website of the old paperwork that used to be sent out with the Conn instruments of that time. In it, it states to use gasoline as a cleaner for the slides; is this something that can still be done or is it something to be avoided?

It also states to soak in kerosene to loosen up stuck slides and caps. Just more curiosity here. Not sure that I'd be willing to try it, especially on the larger horns vs. a trumpet.

[Dan Schultz]

I've been doing some reading on the Conn Loyalist website of the old paperwork that used to be sent out with the Conn instruments of that time. In it, it states to use gasoline as a cleaner for the slides; is this something that can still be done or is it something to be avoided?

It also states to soak in kerosene to loosen up stuck slides and caps. Just more curiosity here. Not sure that I'd be willing to try it, especially on the larger horns vs. a trumpet.

Most non-synthetic valve oils are not much more than kerosene. Lamp oil is the same stuff only refined more. I keep a container of lamp oil around for soaking slide assemblies that I've had to remove from horns in order to free up. Sometimes they have to soak for several weeks but it works. Ferree's sells their J88 'Corrosion Cracker'. It work very well but I don't have a clue what's in it.

It's true that gasoline works very well to remove oily residues and general 'gunk'. I've been known to use gasoline to flush out a horn but would never recommend it simply because of the dangers involved.

There are lots of 'Old World' ways of doing things that really worked well. You rarely ever hear of any repairmen using muriatic acid to clean horns but that's the way it was done before The World went nuts over safety and environmentally friendly issues.

[Tubainsauga]

Gasoline (and other petroleum products) was used as cleaning solvents for quite a while (including for dry cleaning). Flammability was the primary reason they were replaced by largely nonflammable chlorinated solvents such as TCE. All things considered, I'd be pretty uncomfortable about using gasoline as a solvent when there are substantially safer alternatives though the price is pretty attractive. That said, Kerosene is less volatile than Gasoline so if I were to use a petroleum product as a solvent, I'd go with that instead.

[Michael Bush]

' ever tried to light gasoline (like they do on TV all the time) with a lit cigarette?

Yep, there's a reason gasoline engines don't look like gas cans. Gasoline *under pressure* will blow up. Gasoline just sitting there, not so much. Obviously it is flammable, like most things, and indeed much more flammable than most things. But the danger can definitely be exaggerated and often is.

[Tubainsauga]

It's not the liquid gasoline that is a problem, it vaporizes fairly easily and at fairly low temperatures. Also, a gasoline soaked rag is quite flammable and should be stored and disposed of properly.



I'm not saying working with gasoline is especially dangerous, but there are well established risks and much safer alternatives. If nothing else, things like mineral spirits and kerosene don't smell as bad.

[ppalan]

Tubainsauga is correct. It is the vapors of the gasoline that create the real explosion danger as opposed to the liquid Any gasoline beneath the surface should not burn since it is insulated from atmospheric oxygen. Check this out:
Gasoline vapor has a Lower explosive limit (LEL) of 1.4% (meaning when the atmosphere has 1.4% gasoline fumes, and a spark is introduced = Big BOOM!)
Conversely, the Upper Explosive limit (UEL) is 7.6% (meaning beyond 7.6% gas, there is not enough oxygen to support an explosion).
Additional problem with that UEL, most people would suffocate from lack of oxygen.
(all numbers provided by the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health [NIOSH])

[SousaSaver]

There are lots of 'Old World' ways of doing things that really worked well. You rarely ever hear of any repairmen using muriatic acid to clean horns but that's the way it was done before The World went nuts over safety and environmentally friendly issues.

Some people still use muriatic, but very very carefully.

Most common valve oils are denatured kerosene, which also make great cleaners but are VERY expensive compared to gasoline.

My favorite cleaner is Ferree's cold cleaner, which contains some SUPER nasty stuff but nothing cleans out oils better (in my opinion).

[toobagrowl]

You can clean sticky tape residue off your tuba with regular valve oil/lamp oil/kerosene. A tuba I bought last year was shipped with a basketball taped inside the bell for protection. Lamp oil (I use for valve oil sometimes) got the tape residue off.

[SousaSaver]

If tempted to use "gas" as a cleaner/solvent, I use Coleman Fuel instead. It's not stinky, does the same or better job, flashes away clean, and can be use on a variety of finishes. I learned this from friends that build/have/show $100,000.000+ show quality automobiles. They use it a bug/schmutz remover on their many multi-thousand dollar finishes as well as mechanicals.

Cool idea! Off to the local big-box store!

I am such a geek for solvents, what's wrong with me?

[Rick Denney]

' ever tried to light gasoline (like they do on TV all the time) with a lit cigarette?

Yep, there's a reason gasoline engines don't look like gas cans. Gasoline *under pressure* will blow up. Gasoline just sitting there, not so much. Obviously it is flammable, like most things, and indeed much more flammable than most things. But the danger can definitely be exaggerated and often is.

This is really misleading.

Gasoline liquid is not flammable. Gasoline vapors are highly flammable and also explosive in sufficient concentrations. Pressure is absolutely NOT required for abundant flames. The pressure is used to increase the force of the explosion, and explosiveness is why we use the stuff. Gasoline has a low vapor pressure and thus makes vapors in abundance--that's why the hazmat descriptions include "volatile" as well as "flammable". If these vapors ignite, the liquid on hand will continue to feed the flame with fresh vapor until the liquid is all gone.

Not all organic solvents are as explosive or flammable as gasoline. In fact, most are not.

Gasoline vapors also choke out oxygen and can cause asphyxiation, but this is true of lots of things. I would greatly prefer a solvent with a lower vapor pressure, so that it is not so aggressively producing vapor by just sitting there. Kerosene is an example. Even diesel fuel is much less likely to ignite in open air than gasoline.

Rick "who knows several people who were seriously burned by gasoline fumes that reached the pilot light of a water heater and exploded" Denney

[Homerun]

I've always used rubbing alcohol to get sticker residue off things (price tags on golf clubs, old bumper stickers etc.) most people have that around the house too. I need to do a search about it's cleaning abilities...

[Dan Schultz]

BOOM!

[Rex Roeges]

This is actually a very dangerous practice. In addition to the obvious fire hazard, gasoline can be quite toxic and inhaling vapors may damage your health in fairly short order.

The manifestation of the toxicity is, of course, a statistical phenomena. This means that some people can have contact with gasoline everyday for 40 years and never suffer any health effects. Other people can have relatively little contact and display many kinds of cancer, liver disease, skin lesions, central nervous system disorders, etc. after a relatively few physical encounters. Most people have a tolerance somewhere in between.

If you are at all tempted to use gasoline as a cleaner for your tuba, I urge you to search for "gasoline material safety data sheet" and read about this stuff. When used correctly, gasoline quite literally powers our civilization, but when used improperly, it can be truly dangerous.

While I may not be a very good tuba player, I am a chemical engineer and have seen the consequences of ignoring these types of risks. Please don't take the chance of having a fire or of suffering minor or major health defects just to save a few bucks. Use the right kind of cleaner for the job, and that cleaner is never gasoline.

Now, quit reading and go practice.

Best regards,
Rex

[Tundratubast]

Chad,

Don't use gas, nothing wrong with being a little main stream. Use a standard solvent, and follow directions. Although, the Coleman's idea, sounds interesting. See you in a couple of weeks after I get settle back in the North land.

Dave

P.S. Probably over due for a couple beers and a cigar to catch-up on the local scoop.

[sloan]

Aren't cigars flammable ?

flammable, yes.

volatile, no.

[Tundratubast]

Yes Bloke, possibly flammable, but, I might risk it. Consider it a graduation gift to myself.

[Dan Schultz]

Some people may NOT realize how EXPLOSIVE ( ' can be just about as explosive as gasoline) oven cleaner can be.

IF you are using oven cleaner to strip stubborn lacquer or to clean profoundly tarnished silver plating, DO ~NOT~ try to agitate the action of the oven cleaner by heating up the surface with an open flame...

...KA BOOM !!!!!

Izzat the voice of experience?!

[sloan]

Some people may NOT realize how EXPLOSIVE ( ' can be just about as explosive as gasoline) oven cleaner can be.

IF you are using oven cleaner to strip stubborn lacquer or to clean profoundly tarnished silver plating, DO ~NOT~ try to agitate the action of the oven cleaner by heating up the surface with an open flame...

...KA BOOM !!!!!

Izzat the voice of experience?!

Most folk with this experience no longer have a voice.

[Homerun]

Does oven cleaner even do anything to silver horns?

[Ben]

Caution on Whitegas/Colman fuel. This is MORE volatile than gasoline, and these vapors are just as flamable.

From: http://oehha.ca.gov/public_info/pdf/Col ... 10'03'.pdf" target="_blank
u p t o 2 5% n -hexane, 15% cyclohexane, - hint, hexanes boils not far from body temp... this stuff is just waiting to go up in smoke. It is usually more expensive than gasoline to boot...

just be careful, and educate yourself