A Few 20J Questions

[Outawind]

Thinking about buying a 20J for outdoor amateur summer stuff. I've played them, all with forward bell, but never owned one or played one with upright bell. Went back about 15 pages or so on a 20J search for info, and didn't find the answers to a few questions, so if I could impose on you experts:

1) Are there any time periods / years to avoid, or is the 20J pretty consistent through the years of manufacture?

2) Most appear to be offered with a recording bell. If I were to come across an upright bell sometime in the future, is pitch a problem, or are they pitched properly with either bell?

3) Any significant differences in wall thickness within the manufacturing period in the body or bell?

That's about it. Thanks in advance.

[tubaguy9]

The 20J was the bell front model, I believe the 24J was the bell up version (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
20J's are easier to find than 24J's.

[TheHatTuba]

The 20J was the bell front model, I believe the 24J was the bell up version (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
20J's are easier to find than 24J's.

21j is the upright. 24j is the 4 valve version of the 20j (and the 25j is the 4 valve upright bell model)

[The Big Ben]

The 20J was the bell front model, I believe the 24J was the bell up version (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
20J's are easier to find than 24J's.

20J = 3v, front bell
21J = 3v, upright bell
24J = 4v, front bell
25J = 4v, upright bell

The only difference is which direction the bell points. If it is a 'genuine' Conn bell, the pitch should be the same.

[Dan Schultz]

I don't believe any 2XJ tubas were manufactured past the Elkhart, Indiana era. Manufacturing was consistent. The things to watch for in particular, I suppose, are poorly-fashioned aftermarket mouthpipe tubes (easy to spot), and badly-worn pistons (also easy to spot).

What he said. Plus... there are a few #2 pistons available but no new parts are being produced except for those that are common to the 20K sousaphone (valve caps, guides, etc). Contrary to popular belief... the pistons WILL NOT interchange between the 2XJ tubas and the 20K sousaphones as the bores are different.

If you go looking for one... make sure the large bows are in good shape.... especially the one that your hand rest on while playing. The outside of any bend is the thinnest material and these particular bows tend to 'rot out' from all the hand touching.

[emcallaway]

So now that we know the correct model numbers, the question remains: how does the intonation compare between the bell-up and bell-forward configurations?

[GC]

Pretty much identical. The 4th simplifies things, though. You can shade the intonation on 1+3 combinations with the 4th.

I don't recommend low fingerings much past pedal Eb or D using the 4th, though. These things usually have remarkably good false tones, and they are much less stuffy and better in tune than the 4th valve fingerings.

[b.williams]

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[b.williams]

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[b.williams]

I have owned or played 20Js from different decades and they were very consistent.

Changing from a bell front to an upright bell might cause you to adjust you main tuning slide a little bit. Additionally, the tuba may sound different to you the player because the end of the bell is closer to you.

One 20J I owned had a slightly thinner/lighter than normal bell. But for all others, there weren't any significant wall thickness differences.

[Ulli]

Is there somebody in USA, who makes new upright bells for the 2xJ?

BTW: There are recording bells with one or with three reinforcing borders.

(Hope, I choosed the right translation words from dictionary leo)

Ulli

[SousaSaver]

Is there somebody in USA, who makes new upright bells for the 2xJ?

BTW: There are recording bells with one or with three reinforcing borders.

(Hope, I choosed the right translation words from dictionary leo)

Ulli

Yeah -

Kanstul via Lee Stofer. http://www.tubameister.com/4sale.htm#Accessories

[Ulli]

To a 2xJ mouthpice pipe belongs one bit. Is that right?

Ulli

[rodgeman]

To a 2xJ mouthpice pipe belongs one bit. Is that right?

Ulli

It really helps the angle of playing to have the bit. I owned one and tried it without the bit and quickly put it back in.

It is a good solid horn. I have played one from the 30's and owned one form the 60's and they were very consistent.

I recommend a newer one as the older model has extra bends in the 3rd valve tuning slide where water condensates. It is difficult to get it out.

[1895King]

My high school had a good 20J (1961-65). However, the 2 at Fort Hays Kansas State College were difficult to play in tune. We finally cased them up and hid them in the storage area.

[Chobbie]

"I'll say this much - a Kanstul-made 6/4 Grand Rapids bell has been fitted to a Holton 6/4 original CC, and I'm told the results are magic. One of the colleagues in this project recorded another colleague playing the refitted Holton CC in an orchestral setting this week, and told me that the sound was so stunning and Chicago-esque when the tuba first played, that he captured himself exclaiming , "OH MY!" on the recording."- Lee stofer?


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36083&start=0" target="_blank

I'm sure it can be done.

[EdFirth]

Kanstul makes bells for those big conns. Lee Stofer can hook you up. Ed

[Tubacube]

That York alloy is a wonderful thing, nice dark velvety sound. I'm having Kanstul build a french horn(geyer) with the York alloy -- should be great -- just like my 33-S tuba! Should sound great on a 20J.

[b.williams]

To a 2xJ mouthpice pipe belongs one bit. Is that right?

Ulli

Bits were included for player comfort. My current 20J plays very flat with the bit in, so I don't use it.

[normrowe]

Don't need one for my "Minickized" 20J.