Contrast between quality of bugle and # of valves

[imperialbari]

One frequent poster on TN finds himself limited if an F tuba doesn’t have 6 valves and if a CC tuba hasn’t 5 valves. I may be more modest in wanting my basses having at least 4 valves, and if possible they should be compensators.

One thing always puzzling me when seeing German marching bands with their huge BBb Kaisertubas is about these often having only 3 valves, which I find very limiting especially concerning intonation.

When I see a B&S Symphonie BBb tuba with only 3 rotors then I find the discrepancy between the the symphonic reference of the model name and then its few valves blatant.

Klaus

[Dean E]

I can only assume that low price often is the main consideration when buying 3-valve tubas, just the same as with beer.

[imperialbari]

I tend to doubt that, as the 2nd lines in the German-Czech tradition acoustically are the same, and a 4 valve Weltklang still would be a good tuba. As I read the situation the main consideration is weight, which matters on longer parades.

Klaus

[imperialbari]

People pay money to yank perfectly good 5th valves off of nice C tubas

...and others add a 6th.

[imperialbari]

.... the addition of valves .... makes a player have more flexablity in approaching the varity of music we can face as tuba players.

I seem to recognize this as my ever so convoluted message.

Klaus

[imperialbari]

If removing a 5th valve makes a tuba better, why not remove most or all of the valves?

Somebody trying to act as the poster boy for a triple lobotomy with extra suction?

[imperialbari]

If you started removing valves you would be marching in DCI then.

I think, and this is just my opinion that anyone who pays money to buy a five valve tuba to remove the fifth valve probably bought the wrong tuba. Now I am talking just about tuba's that were orginally built with at least 5 valves, not a three of four valve tuba with added valve or two. I understand how on some the removing opens it up but if you buy a tuba that was orginally built with at least five valves and remove one or two didn't you just waste a lot of money?

I know of one situation where removing valves made some sense.

The band of our royal lifeguard marches the incoming and the outgoing watch detachment from the barracks to the castle and back during the winter months, when residency is in Copenhagen. Their practice is about buying high end concert instruments, which then are used for parades, when new concert instruments are bought. The 6 valve F tuba, that I know of, had 2 valves removed when transferred to marching usage.

Klaus

[Full Metal Ratchet]

When I see a B&S Symphonie BBb tuba with only 3 rotors then I find the discrepancy between the the symphonic reference of the model name and then its few valves blatant.

Klaus

A very classy jab. Imagine if they had a "Student" model.

[Bob Kolada]

You can do a lot of stuff with a 3 valve Bb (including saving money ); the only big limitation being the possible lack of a low Eb. I find 3 valve tubas to be a bit simpler/more intuitive/more "down to earth" or whatever/... Though I don't have a lot of time on them, I'm a big fan of the 4 valve horns where the 4th is tuned flat and only used in the low range with the horn being played mostly as a 3 valver.

[imperialbari]

You can do a lot of stuff with a 3 valve Bb (including saving money ); the only big limitation being the possible lack of a low Eb. I find 3 valve tubas to be a bit simpler/more intuitive/more "down to earth" or whatever/... Though I don't have a lot of time on them, I'm a big fan of the 4 valve horns where the 4th is tuned flat and only used in the low range with the horn being played mostly as a 3 valver.

Wasn’t that the Harvey Phillips approach?

Klaus

[toobagrowl]

You can do a lot of stuff with a 3 valve Bb (including saving money ); the only big limitation being the possible lack of a low Eb. I find 3 valve tubas to be a bit simpler/more intuitive/more "down to earth" or whatever/... Though I don't have a lot of time on them, I'm a big fan of the 4 valve horns where the 4th is tuned flat and only used in the low range with the horn being played mostly as a 3 valver.

+1

Most big vintage American BBb tubas have good false/ghost tones, so the 3 valvers are fine for many settings. But it is preferable to have 4+ valves for more "serious" music & ensembles though.

[MartyNeilan]

You can do a lot of stuff with a 3 valve Bb (including saving money ); the only big limitation being the possible lack of a low Eb. I find 3 valve tubas to be a bit simpler/more intuitive/more "down to earth" or whatever/... Though I don't have a lot of time on them, I'm a big fan of the 4 valve horns where the 4th is tuned flat and only used in the low range with the horn being played mostly as a 3 valver.

+1

Most big vintage American BBb tubas have good false/ghost tones, so the 3 valvers are fine for many settings. But it is preferable to have 4+ valves for more "serious" music & ensembles though.

Especially those painfully sharp 123 combos (aggressive slide-pullers exempted)

[Bob Kolada]

I hate the 24 combo almost as much as 523.
Most of the 3 valve horns I've owned play 13 and 23 fine with the same 3rd slide setting. Tune 3 with the bottom so that the top is all the way in (use 2,...) and you'll have a set return point. Flat 4 on the thumb with 1, 2, and 3 as normal would rock. No pinkie flailing and if you adopt the 2280 style tuning the thumb valve almost becomes an octave key. The only big problem would be, more so on a contrabass tuba, the possibility of the 4th valve getting cold and flat from less use while playing.

[imperialbari]

If removing a 5th valve makes a tuba better, why not remove most or all of the valves?

Always going for the unoccupied point of views as bloke is, even ending up in absurdity, he still will find suppliers:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... 0790175481