5 valve lightweight British Eb

[Wyvern]

I wonder if there would be interest, particularly from British tuba players in a non-compensated Eb with 3 top valves and 2 left hand operated valves as was once popular for British orchestral F tubas? A 16.5" bell providing a lighter F tuba like tone recreating the sound of British tubas prior to the 981 compensated EEb.

More open in the low register without the compensation loops, but through a flat tone 5th valve capable of playing fully chromatically.

Possibly tonally better than a 19" bell compensated to compliment a CC tuba in the orchestra and with a lighter tone for quintet, or solo use.

In other words a tuba for those that like the British style Eb, but would appreciate producing the lyrical tones of an F.

This is currently just an idea I have, and I would like to see if there is any interest before pursuing.

[tubaforce]

Hi, Jonathan!
I'm sure a 5-ROTOR (or six?) EEb would be popular in the states if it turned out right. A Norwegian Star inspired horn would be grand too!

Al

[UDELBR]

I'd bet there'd be more market for a LARGE Eb (20 inch bell) with 4 top pistons + 1 left-hand rotor (like the Yamaha plugin gizmo from awhile back). This would combine two good ideas from days gone by.

[joh_tuba]

Others have already pointed this out BUT you are more or less describing a non-compensating 983 or a YEB321 with an added fifth valve or *maybe* the Norwegian Star or Star Lite. Are those horns not readily accessible? If so, are they not popular because of tradition? You seem to be advocating the development of a 3+2 non-comp solo horn. If someone was already making a switch from a 3+1 comp setup and having to learn new finger habits why would they choose 3+2 over a 4+1? I think you propose an interesting alternative but my gut says the demand for this would be very limited.

In the states I think there would be far more interest in an Eb(and BBb for that matter) that properly captures the 20" bell 981 British sound but utilizes a non-compensating 4+1 valve cluster. A larger bore more open response curve would also be nice if it didn't deviate too much from the 981 sound. Horns for brass band that respond and finger like the horns we are already accustomed to could potentially draw a lot of attention.

I'm not an expert in this area but from a visual perspective the MW2141 and PT-22 seem to be an attempt to capture what I'm describing. Do they accomplish that task?

P.S. Sorry if I'm steering the thread away from your intended topic.

[T. J. Ricer]

I would think that could be a very interesting and useful horn. I used to play on an old Besson prototype euphonium that was upright 3 + 2 and found that reasonably useful and easy to manage. Thein has done the front action Eb version of that:



but, of course, the cost on that is prohibitive for most players.

[Bob Kolada]

I was just the other day thinking that a front valve non comp 981 would rock, esecially with a weight reduction over the rather chunky 981. How is the intonation of the clone's bugle? A smaller one is also interesting.

[Ferguson]

Does this Kanstul 66S Eb not fit the bill? I know, 4+1, but close.

SF

[bilmac]

Jonathan---Fletcher wrote about this possibility 35 years ago but at that time B&H had no interest. I think what you might be leaning towards is a Barlow F but in E flat. I have always preferred a straight system instrument as opposed to a compensated one , although I do recognise that it 's easier to point and squirt with a compensator sometimes, so yes, I might be interested in looking at one in the future. That's not to say I would buy one--just look at this stage.I did have a blow on a Barlow many years ago and liked it but didn't get blowing it for any length of time.I also blew a Gronitz Double about that time (30 years ago) and liked it a lot too.Maybe I just like non compensators. I have listened to the Kanstuls on youtube but don't hugely like that sort of sound so picking up an earlier thread , I don't think they are on the same area of the spectrum as you have in mind and are not the answer .You are looking in a different direction. Would they be significantly better/ different to Mark Carter's German made non compensating E flats which I blew a few years back and liked a lot--I appreciate they are rotary valved and look in a different direction again.
What bore size had you in mind?
I have a York 17 inch bell E flat (amongst others) which is rock solid and very good indeed so I suppose there would have to be a quantum leap to persuade me to become over excited and buy another E flat, but I have been known to become over excited in the past!

[J.c. Sherman]

Always here with a contrary opinion, the only way the typical 3+1 Brit Eb could improve - for me - would be to make it 3+1 with front valves and no strain on the left hand (set a valve lever inside the bows or some such). Why? Left bell is what people expect and it's not a "band tuba". It would only be to fight the right-bell prejudice.

The Brit 3+1 is otherwise a perfect "best of all worlds" instrument, IMHO - especially with regard to acrobatics and versatility!

J.c.S.

[Wyvern]

Thanks for your replies. Sounds like not one to pursue! There are a lot more 'in demand' instruments to get produced.

What I will very soon have in stock is the non-compensated 3+1 16.5" bell Wisemann Eb as on the Wessex Tubas website. I am bringing one back with me from China. That is a really super playing instrument with just the kind of sound I am think of, but of course not quite fully chromatic (no real low E) without the compensation, although I know a player in the UK who has played in a good orchestra with non-compensated 3+1 EEb for years without apparent problem.

For getting a 4+1 front valve Eb made in China - I think that is way down the list behind a good front piston CC and F

[UDELBR]

I think that is way down the list behind a good front piston CC and F

Teach 'em the acronym B.A.T.

[Wyvern]

Teach 'em the acronym B.A.T.

Keep a look out for that one!

[tuba.bobby]

Maybe a 3 + 2 CC wouldn't go astray in the UK...?

[MartyNeilan]

Teach 'em the acronym B.A.T.

Keep a look out for that one!

Just PLEASE keep it from weighing 40 pounds!

[iiipopes]

Honestly, I would love to see an affordable 4 +1 front action Eb hit the market.

The St. Pete Eb 5-valve is @$3600 with a 15 3/4 inch bell and .710 bore.

[willako]

Yes, I would be interested. William.