Conn 12J thoughts? - Bought one! a Conn that is...

[Tubajug]

I would like your opinions on the Conn 12J tuba for having around as a "beater" horn if you will. My plan is to use it in schools at which I teach, tuba christmas, occasional pick-up gigs, etc. Is it pretty solid intonation wise? Would it be pretty easy to walk around with? Any of your input would be greatly appreciated. I'm going back and forth between buying either a Conn or a Yamaha YBB 103 for my purposes stated above. Thanks in advance!

[iiipopes]

Between those two, and only those two, I would go with the 12J, as it is a little bigger all the way around: physically, tonally, etc., and would probably work better for you.

But both will have all the deficiencies that any 3-valve non-comp tuba will have, namely any valve combination will need some sort of compromise in either slide setting, pulling, or lipping on a significant number of notes to play in tune. If I were you, I'd increase my budget for a 4-valve horn. Just about any reputable 4-valve instrument will have better overall intonation than a 3-valve, if only due to being able to use the 4th valve on those notes where 1+3 would result in needing pulling or lipping to get them into tune, and 3rd valve then, instead of having to do "double duty" between being flat on 2+3 and sharp on 1+3, can be set for 2+3 for better intonation on those notes.

The proposed uses of your tuba include being able to adequately intonate properly and consistently, which can usually be done better with a 4-valve tuba. I respectfully suggest you consider a 4-valve instrument.

[SousaSaver]

Go with the 103. It is smaller, lighter and an all around decent instrument. This isn't to say that the Conn is bad, because it is not.

[Art Hovey]

Go with the 12J, or an 11J if you can find one. They both are more satisfying to play than the 103. The 103 is an excellent tuba for a young child just getting started, but it's just too small for an adult. The 11J is same as a 12J but with a slightly smaller bell diameter, which makes it lighter and less cumbersome. Both Conns have high registers that are much more secure than the 103, and also have low registers that sound like a real tuba.

[TUbajohn20J]

I'd go with the 12J or 11J...or even a 10J. Its 2 inches shorter than a 12J and 11J but still has an 18" bell flare, and has a slightly larger bore.. .695 compared to the .658. Either way..theyre all very light and would be easy to carry around to schools.

[imperialbari]

The 103 is an excellent tuba for a young child just getting started, but it's just too small for an adult.

[Art Hovey]

http://www.galvanizedjazz.com/tuba/frugalhorn.html

[Tubajug]

Art,

What are the modifications made to that horn? I see a rotary valve there below your right hand in the picture, could you tell me what you've done to that horn? Thanks!

[Tubajug]

Haha, nevermind, I just clicked the link. I didn't know that's what it was. Very cool!

[imperialbari]

Art, wasn’t that the horn your jazz band tuba girl played?

Klaus

[Michael Bush]

The 103 is an excellent tuba for a young child just getting started, but it's just too small for an adult.

The 103 is a useful, workmanlike tuba to have around. I'm considering keeping the current one, in spite of my vow to sell it when the big Conn has its legs under it. It is indeed very small and thus awkward to play sitting down, at least for me (and the guy in the picture!). But it's cheap, light, and easy to play in tune.

[imperialbari]

It isn’t just any guy in the picture. It is the famous Emerald trucker known a Schlepporello.

Klaus

[Michael Bush]

It isn’t just any guy in the picture. It is the famous Emerald trucker known a Schlepporello.

Klaus

Ah!

[Tubajug]

Thanks for all of your input! I went with the Conn 12J. I found one on ebay from Metrognome Music in AZ for $500. We'll see how it goes when it gets here! Thanks for all your help!

[MartyNeilan]

Thanks for all of your input! I went with the Conn 12J. I found one on ebay from Metrognome Music in AZ for $500. We'll see how it goes when it gets here! Thanks for all your help!

One word of warning:
These instruments are VERY small bore. Do not "force feed" or overblow them!
Marty "who has had to tolerate way too many ugly sounds coming out of 3/4 Conns"

[iiipopes]

I agree. A gentleman who plays community concerts occasionally with our Shrine band has a 12J. It sounds good as long as it isn't pushed too hard. Another gentleman who plays keys in another dance band I play bass guitar in also plays tuba occasionally and has one. His is rather stuffy, but sounds best with a Conn Helleberg 120S. I suggest you start off with that mouthpiece and see what happens. Along with the small bore comes the requirement of a rather deep funnel to make any tone at all, hence the 120S, and NOT the 7B and NOT a Bach 18 or similar. A shallow funnel or a bowl cup of any sort will just whang out thin tones on these instruments. Think a big "OH" as you play, focusing on controlled volume of air.

Tuning for conventional 3-valve instruments: tune open 2nd line Bb and adjust as necessary to split the difference for bottom F and low open BBb. Then tune 1st and 2nd each just a couple of cents flat so that you can still center the pitch, but also so 1+2 will not be so sharp as can be played with only a slight lip down. Then pull 3 and tune it so that it splits the difference between 2+3 being slightly flat, but can be lipped up by arching the back of the tongue to accelerate the air slightly over the embouchure, and 1+3 can be lipped down somewhat. 1+2+3? Forget it.

[Tubajug]

Thanks for the input, I'll keep all that in mind when it gets here. It was shipped on Friday so it might make it before Thanksgiving! Thanks again for all your help fellow Tubenetters!

[MartyNeilan]

Tuning for conventional 3-valve instruments: tune open 2nd line Bb and adjust as necessary to split the difference for bottom F and low open BBb. Then tune 1st and 2nd each just a couple of cents flat so that you can still center the pitch, but also so 1+2 will not be so sharp as can be played with only a slight lip down. Then pull 3 and tune it so that it splits the difference between 2+3 being slightly flat, but can be lipped up by arching the back of the tongue to accelerate the air slightly over the embouchure, and 1+3 can be lipped down somewhat. 1+2+3? Forget it.

I spend a few nights a week at my kids' house and get to mess around on my son's 12J regularly. I have found that I actually prefer to keep my left hand on the 3rd valve slide instead of the 1st slide. Normally keep it out enough for 1-3 to be in tune, push all the way in for 2-3, and pull out a lot for 1-2-3. When I give it back to him, I split the difference between 1-3 and 2-3.
The third slide is easily enough accessible that it is not a problem to play every note in tune. False tone low EEb plays like a beast open, and everything chromatic under it to the pedal plays perfectly without a 4th valve. Even my son (just completed 5th grade) can easily nail that low EEb.
I usually use either a plastic or SS Kellyberg on it, that small tuba needs a deep funnel to maintain a full contrabass tuba sound. Decent horn, but can easily get ugly if pushed too hard. His horn has a LOT of extra brass soldered to the bell from previous repairs that raises the breakup threshold considerably over a stock 12J, and the plastic bell rim protector I made helps a little as well. Still not the best horn for a big ensemble or a very aggressive player, but great for a middle schooler or a small combo.