Tell me about my new sousaphone (and I need a mpc!!)

[imperialbari]

Full circle + long main tuning slide + 2 top knuckles on the 3rd valve loop => BBb.

You don’t tell which mouthpiece(-s) you already have. That would be the starting point. Otherwise the fairly small bore of the outer branches would not call for a too deep mouthpiece.

Klaus

[abracadabra]

I don't have any mouthpiece! I can't even play the thing.

I'm looking for some suggestions.

mark

[imperialbari]

Are you new to tuba/sousaphone?

What are your low brass experiences?

Knowing nothing about you makes it even more hazardous to give you specific advice. I am pretty sure what I would use myself, but pointing you to a costly solution without any foundation for doing so would not be productive for your playing.

Normally I would never direct anybody towards a product I don’t like very much myself, yet it makes some sense in this context.

Kelly makes Lexan mouthpieces, which are technically well made, and the price is lower than with many other models out of metal. Their 18 and Kellyberg mouthpieces represent two mainstream types of tuba mouthpieces, cup and funnel respectively. If you can afford both, you can test your preferences for yourself. If you want to just buy one, my default recommendation for such smallish sousaphone would be the 18.

http://www.kellymouthpieces.com/kmtuba/index.asp

Klaus, who prefers metal mouthpieces, but who owns some Kelly models

[toobagrowl]

IMG_3757.JPG

Here's a pic of just the neck so we can figure out for sure what it is and what bits I need to buy.

mark

That is the "new style" King souzy neck. You already have one of the big bits but probably need a couple more bits to accept standard shank mouthpieces. The smaller bit has the fatter ring on the end, and it fits into the big bit (small ring - just like the one you have in the pic) and neck just fine.

King souzy bits here:
http://www.abimusic.com/p-7567-king-sousa-bits-2pk.aspx" target="_blank" target="_blank

Ditto the Kelly 18. It's a good cheap all-around mouthpiece.

[sousaphone68]

I have had mixed results buying tuning bits of eBay. If you have a music nearby bring the gooseneck to it and buy some more to fit. I have a Kelly lexan mp for cold outdoor gigs and found it to be comfortable to use and OK sounding but it would be an economic way to try out a wide rim mp I only have experience of Denis Wicke and Besson 24 mp just tried a Bach 24 AW last night in my Eb besson clone and liked the results big unexpected difference in sound compared to the Besson 24. If you feel up to it bring the entire sousaphone and try all the mp's in the shop use a tuner to see which gives the best intonation.

[abracadabra]

Well, my experience is limited but I owned and played an Eb Besson sousaphone for a number of years, that was a few years ago.

I'm gonna pick up some of the King tuning bits.

As for mouthpiece, the Kelly ones I'm a little hesitant about because I think I like the idea of metal. I see a few mouthpieces for sale in the "sale" section here, such as a Besson 24 and a Bach 25C. Might these be a decent place to start?

mark

[fairweathertuba]

I wouldn't really recommend a lexan mp for someone who hadn't played for a long time or for a beginner either, they just don't have the same playing characteristics of a metal mps and the tone suffers a little as well. Also I don't buy the argument that they are exactly the same shape as the metal ones they are modelled after; they are sorta close, but I seem to find that there are subtle differences in rim and bowl shape and size. If you want to try a Bach 18 buy a real Bach 18 or a real Blessing 18 or a real Conn Helleberg.

You can buy and sell mpcs here on the tubenet "for sale" section without going into extreme poverty, simply by selling off what you don't intend to use anymore. It takes a little longer than buying new but saves your cash.

[imperialbari]

As for mouthpiece, the Kelly ones I'm a little hesitant about because I think I like the idea of metal. I see a few mouthpieces for sale in the "sale" section here, such as a Besson 24 and a Bach 25C. Might these be a decent place to start?

mark

Of course I respect your preferences for metal-mouthpieces. However the real problem about finding a good one for your less than mainstream (too small bore for that) BBb sousaphone is about aiming at the fine line between stuffiness and overload. The said Besson and Bach both are one the too small side to give you a free blowing.

Klaus

[abracadabra]

Would a 24aw be a good start? I see a few on Ebay that seem like they'll go cheap enough to try. I'm just looking for a starting point, then I can fine tune the mpc. And I don't mind buying a couple of used mpc's before I find the right one.

thanks for all the help so far!

mark

[abracadabra]

I thought of the Helleberg 7b, which is shallower than the standard helleberg, is this worth a shot?

mark

[imperialbari]

I thought of the Helleberg 7b, which is shallower than the standard helleberg, is this worth a shot?

mark

To me, the best of your suggestions so far.

Klaus

[fairweathertuba]

The mpcs you've been talking about are really too small for a BBb. If you REALLY just want a mp cheap, and I'm going against my advice there's a kelley 18 listed here. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=44919

This $15 dollar MP will sort of let you sort of get the general idea what a real Bach 18 is like, but not really.

[clunkertruck]

I'm pretty sure that this is what Olds supplied with your horn-- If you'ld like to try it, PM me and I'll send it to ya--

S6300373.JPG

S6300378.JPG

[Donn]

The mpcs you've been talking about are really too small for a BBb.

There might be some consensus on that about the 25C, and I have never played a 24AW so won't comment, but the 7B is without any doubt big enough for BBb. It's hard to detect any physical difference between the 7B and the older Conn 2, and I guess the current "Conn 1792-2", and these are also widely deployed on sousaphones with excellent results.

But while the 25C is small, so is this particular sousaphone, and as Klaus mentioned above, it's hard to suggest a mouthpiece for an unknown person over the Internet. I think all we can do is encourage this person to try a variety of mouthpieces. I like the idea of putting more money into mouthpieces than into the tuba itself.

[clunkertruck]

Olds (the real F.E. Olds & Son - Fullerton, CA) did not make any "knock-offs" of other makers' mouthpieces. There was no "Olds 24AW".

That mouthpiece is probably something that was contracted by N.E.M.C. (New Jersey based) to be fab'ed up.

OK then--
Thanks for setting the record straight-- I can now sleep restful tonite--

But it really doesn't matter though-- I am sending him the mouthpiece anyway-- If he likes it and it works for him, he can keep it-- If not, he can return it--

[fairweathertuba]

I like the idea of putting more money into mouthpieces than into the tuba itself.

Does this apply to all tubas?

I guess I'm just not a small mp fan, many times I've heard the small MP causing problems that a medium size mp would have never caused.

[Donn]

I guess I'm just not a small mp fan, many times I've heard the small MP causing problems that a medium size mp would have never caused.

Yet the difference between smallest to medium-large cup diameter is what, maybe 2 mm - 5% of the diameter? Meanwhile the variation in people's physical attributes - lips, jaws, etc. - maybe more like 20%, never really looked into it?

And then there are the less well understood but maybe more important parameters in the mouthpiece dimensions, like the throat bore. (Particularly relevant when discussing the 24AW design, I gather.) We don't have such rigid ideas about what specific throat bore might be suited to bass tuba, vs. contrabass, but maybe we should? And depth of cup, which isn't really so practical to measure but makes a lot of difference when we're talking about "small" vs. "large", since that might really be as much about volume as width.

For sure, if 9 out of 10 adult players are using 32mm mouthpieces, you should probably try one and see if that's for you too. But I'm just not sure one size fits all.

[fairweathertuba]

I think Floyd Cooley and Rex Martin and others have used smallish to really small mpcs to good effect, so sure there are people who do use them, I just wouldn't go there for a first unless there was a good reason to.

[sonofjabba]

I just got one of these O-97 Sousaphones. Yes They Are BBb. Allied Does NOT Carry a Original Replacement Mouthpipe for this model Olds Sousaphone Craig at Allied was a little shocked when I told him what I was looking for. I had a beat up one for a Conn 14k/20k laying around with some creative tinkering (Trombone Tuning Slide Parts) it looks factory and it didn't throw off the intonation. If anything I think it opened up the horn. Making it Feel on the lips more like a horn 1/3rd larger. Not as stuffy as my O-99 Tuba was. With my Wick #1 (I use this mouthpiece ALL THE TIME) Worked great. Solid centered tone, all the notes are even. Nice piece. Easy to work on.

One Side Note I had to do reconstructive surgery. I took 1/2 the main branches apart to do dent work. Olds did a pretty lousy job soldering these together, Cold Solder and Lack of Solder was in most of the dissected joints. It was actually disappointing I held Olds as the gold standard.... The Joint were your shoulder goes at that feral barely had a tack of solder holding it together. The rest were all leaks. I went over a bunch of them, fluxing and adding solder. Owning old horns remember lacquer is Bull Crap!!! How the horn plays is everything. I've seen BRAND New horns falling apart from cold solder joints.

All in all nice little souzi. Better than my Fiberglass Buescher I sold about 6 or 7 years ago... On par with the last 14K I had.

For about 4 -5 hours of Dents, and Solder I think it's pretty presentable. If I put double that time into it and burnished out every last little blemish it would have been perfect. Since I don't have a case yet I figured I'd hold off. All the really bad Hard to get to areas are done.

Before


After


I know my Dining Room looks like the Brass Exchange. 2 Bari-Saxes, 2 Tubas, Now a Sousaphone, Baritone Bugle.... Then I have the Stuff Upstairs....


PJ
Frank Woodwind Repair - Brass Tech.