"Kaiser?"

[rodgeman]

Steve Marcus - Thanks for the update.

[Ulli]

The differences between the Cerveny 601, 701, and 696 are not clear, except that the 601 and 701 are heavier than the 696.

All 7xx Cervenys are complete gold brass.

[Wyvern]

The 701 is red brass (higher copper content than gold brass) with nickel silver valves and leadpipe and appeared on the one I had hand-hammered (could see all the seems)

[Rev Rob]

I am glad Chris purchased this tuba. I was bidding on it as well. But looking at the size of this tuba, I would be hard pressed to send enough air through it. This is a young man's tuba.

[sloan]

The Kaiser term for a big tuba may be seen in the light of tuba history still being young, when when Germany became a unified Kaiserreich in 1871.

Whereas there were tubas this large being produced far, far earlier than 1871.

What were they called then, Klaus?

[Ulli]

The 701 is red brass (higher copper content than gold brass) with nickel silver valves and leadpipe and appeared on the one I had hand-hammered (could see all the seems)

Sorry, my translation mistake:

For the Cerveny 7xx, the German word is Goldmessing, so I translated gold brass.

[Wyvern]

The 701 is red brass (higher copper content than gold brass) with nickel silver valves and leadpipe and appeared on the one I had hand-hammered (could see all the seems)

Sorry, my translation mistake:

For the Cerveny 7xx, the German word is Goldmessing, so I translated gold brass.

No reason to apologise! Maybe in German the Cerveny is called gold brass, but is more usually called red brass in English due to the more red color with higher copper content.

[bisontuba]

Hi-
Having seen this older thread, and with recent interest in large rotary tubas again , I am just wondering what is your favorite:
1). BBb and, 2). CC 'Kaiser' tuba(s) that YOU HAVE PLAYED (whether you own it or not, and whether it is a new model or older horn) these days?

Thanks-

Mark

[bisontuba]

' still for sale?

I just love asking a question, and having a sarcastic response.....
Mark

[Lars Trawen]

When asked what make and model this tuba is, Chris Schmidt, its lucky owner, answered, "It's a Kaiser BBb, purchased from eBay."

These questions certainly are not meant to embarrass Chris (besides, I'd like to try the horn someday!), but I'm curious:

Is "Kaiser" the name of a company, builder, or brand? I thought the term simply referred to a style or size of horn.

Who is the manufacturer of this tuba, and is there an actual model designation? Has anyone besides Chris seen or does anyone else own a tuba exactly like this one?

When working in Holland about 20 years ago, I came across a Dutch manufacturer of tubas, located in Enschede.
The company was named Van Weersel and the tubas were called J.F. Kayser.
I don't know if the company still exists.
One of the models I testplayed was very similar to Chris' Kaiser seen on his picture.
For you to compare, I attach a picture, taken at that occasion.
I was told it was a Miraphone copy. It certainly looks like one.

[PhilGreen]

In 1987 the band I played in bought 2 Kaiser tubas from Phil Parker in London. They were in BBb, had 5 rotary valves and the 5th stepped the tuning down a minor 3rd.
Could anyone identify from this rather old photo? My friend still has this one in his loft, unplayed and unloved, although I see him seldom now to encourage him to play and check out the model myself.

Thanks in advance......

[imperialbari]

190-5U

[PhilGreen]

190-5U

Brilliant. And are these instruments brilliant too?

[imperialbari]

Depends how much you shine them.

[PhilGreen]

Depends how much you shine them.

Did I ask for that? Probably.......

OK - from what I've read lot's of people rave about the new 190 CC. This is the older, beefier cousin in BBb. Is/was it a good tuba to play or just a "curious" one to blow?

[Wyvern]

Phil, I tried the other one of these band Miraphone 190 at Mr.Tuba and did not find the best example of a Kaiser BBb. A modern Melton Fafner, Rudolf Meinl, or Miraphone Siegfried are definitely much better Kaisers.

[imperialbari]

I found out about the 190-5U via the 1993 Miraphone tuba catalogue in my brass galleries.

Just took a look at the OPs photo. Appears like that tuba also is a Miraphone 190. From the said catalogue it may be seen that the German # is 0090. Also that the same body comes with 3, 4, or 5 valves. The transmission, like the nickel silver trim, comes in more or less prestigious variants.

Klaus

[toobagrowl]

Hi-
Having seen this older thread, and with recent interest in large rotary tubas again , I am just wondering what is your favorite:
1). BBb and, 2). CC 'Kaiser' tuba(s) that YOU HAVE PLAYED (whether you own it or not, and whether it is a new model or older horn) these days?

Thanks-

Mark

Well, I guess my fav would be my old Kaiser BBb. I admit though that I have not played many Kaiser tubas. But I have almost always been impressed by their sound anytime anyone has tooted one.
My Kaiser BBb is in some ways similar and in some ways different from my M-W 2155R CC, which can be considered borderline Kaiser. Both have that dense, deep, rich sound, and both are tall rotary horns with large bores. The 2155R plays more 'stiff'; it's not as forgiving in response or pitch, but it is a louder, darker-sounding tuba (yes, it's darker even though it's in CC) with more 'bite' in the sound.
The old Kaiser BBb has an easier response and better scale and has a softer, mellower quality to the sound - a bit more 'pillowy' in sound. And it is a much lighter horn due to it's very thin metal - it's OLD.

OK...a down-to-earth response.

Most of the "Kaiser" stuff that I've played has been Czech. Those types of instruments from Germany seem much more uncommon. I never could figure out the pitch (or the low range) on the Bb's. The scale on all of the huge old rotary C's that I've played has been unusable. Maybe others have stumbled across some better examples.

My old Kaiser BBb has the two-whole-step 4th valve, meaning it equals valves 2&3 instead of 1&3. It's kinda weird to play low C and F with 2&4 instead of just 4, and low B and E 1&4 instead of 2&4. I was wondering why the 4th valve was so sharp, even with the slide pulled, and then I stumbled onto an old thread here and figured it out. Apparently, the shorter two-whole-step 4th valve was somewhat common on old rotary contrabass tubas

[eupher61]

A Kaiser Alex BBb, possibly from the late 50s, was available to me for a while in grad school. Talk about sound...but, as Bloke said, pitch was certainly a challenge, but a little time made it all work out better.

The Rudy 6/4 simply seems amazing. I doubt I'll have much of a chance to play one ever. But, that's no longer my kind of playing anyway.

[EdFirth]

I bought the first of five Kaiser Cerveny Bb's in 1972, switched to a C Kaiser Cerveny, owned two of them, played on a 5/4 Rudy in the early 80's for a few years, and currently use a King rotary tuba that is the size of a Kaiser but smaller bore. To me, the Bb Cerveny's are the most consistant and easiest to play as well as being the best with pitch. My two C's were like the Bb's but about 15 years ago I tried out two that were pretty bad. No low D.The Rudy, for me was easy to play and well in tune but didn't project, with a close mike it was killer but it was too light in a hall. The King is a bit challenging to get used to but sound, pitch, projection are much more to my liking. A side note, in 1982 I flew from New Orleans to New York to try horns at Giardinelli's and the best Sounding horn in the place(to me) was a Kaiser Bb Alexander. But it had the most pitch issues I had ever encountered up to that time and at 4200bucks compared to 1700 for a Cerveny that was Very well in tune made it a pretty easy choice(although that Alexander sound Was tempting). Anyway those are my experiences with Kaisers. I look at My King as kind of an American Alexander, it has that real dark thick sound, but the darn thing is in tune(for me).Ed