Heading to Jim Laabs; Would Appreciate Advice

[Dan Schultz]

...... I would not let one bad experience with old worn-out rotary valves cause me to totally write off rotary valves. ....

Ditto. Rotary valves are very easy to maintain and seldom cause problems unless it's due to physical damage. The most common cause of noise rotors is improper assembly of the back bearing plates. Even the old 'S-bar' linkage can be tightened so it is noise-free. Some of the plastic ball ends from the mid-70's and 80's leave something to be desired but they can be easily replaced by more robust hardware.

I play piston horns quite a bit but find the rotary ones to be more forgiving. Especially during Volksfest. Bratwurst, pretzel, and popcorn fragments seem to 'whistle' straight through!

[glangfur]

I'm surprised nobody has yet recommended looking for a used Conn 4J or 5J. These fit your bill exactly: 4 piston valves, compact for your smaller body type, easy to play, well in tune, pretty consistent build quality as far as I know, and can usually be had for under $2800.

[TUBAD83]

I'm surprised nobody has yet recommended looking for a used Conn 4J or 5J. These fit your bill exactly: 4 piston valves, compact for your smaller body type, easy to play, well in tune, pretty consistent build quality as far as I know, and can usually be had for under $2800.

+1

Excellent, smaller horns with four front pistons and rugged build. AND much higher resale value. You will probably get what you paid if you sell, even years later. The Chinese stuff still has a very steep depreciation. A used Conn will play better and has already depreciated. Parts are easy to locate in most cases. The horns generally play very well without regard to price, but especially so for what you pay for one used and in great shape. Just make sure to open up the piston casings to check the valve plating.

A couple things need to be mentioned as well--the 4J/5J that's in really good performing condition is going to be well over 3K--If you do find one under 3k it usually is not going to be pretty sight to behold and will probably have a problem or two to be dealt with.

JJ

[Michael Bush]

Here's what I wrote some time ago about Schiller/Laabs.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39703&p=346804&hili ... er#p346804" target="_blank

In sum, I have no problem with Chinese tubas and enjoyed the "Schiller" I had for a while (bought from its first owner). But I have no use for Laabs, because of their deceitful marketing. I'm awaiting the arrival of another Jinbao even now. But I made a point of buying it from Al Triplett and specifically not from Laabs, not least because it costs less from Al, but also because he leaves the Jinbao imprint on it and doesn't make up some damn-fool story about a non-existent German instrument maker ("Gustav Schiller") or a non-existent connection with Frankfurt or anyplace else in Germany. In other words, he tells the plain truth.

[cjk]

why not this nice-looking German BBflat for 2200 ?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=44245

f.w.i.w. these Weltklang "stencils" are from a proven manufacturer (B&S or Cerveny) and overall very good tubas, this one looks to be in fine shape and is being offered by a tubenet poster

f.w.i.w. Weltklangs are made by B&S. I'm thinking that Weltklang might have actually been B&S' lower priced brand, not so much a stencil.

But yeah, those B&S made BBflats are quite good.

[TUBAD83]

I sold an excellent one for $2400, and that is what I usually see here. They do not cost that much, JJ. $3000 is a LOT for one of these.

Agree totally--but this site is an exception, not the rule. There are 2 Conn 5J's on ebay right now with a asking price well over 3k (which is what I usually see there and on Craigslist for those models in great condition). Yes of course if you wait for it and have cash in hand, eventually you can get it at a decent price---but not many people have that kind of patience.

As for Jim Laabs' "Schiller" fiction, I don't like it either but ALOT of US companies do the same thing (for example, M&M USA stamped on their Chinese horns) and we all know why. Lets not single out Laabs for something thats long been an American business tradition.

JJ

[Dan Schultz]

I sold an excellent one for $2400, and that is what I usually see here. They do not cost that much, JJ. $3000 is a LOT for one of these.

Agree totally--but this site is an exception, not the rule. There are 2 Conn 5J's on ebay right now with a asking price well over 3k (which is what I usually see there and on Craigslist for those models in great condition). ..... JJ

I just sold a dent free, raw brass 5J in great condition for $1,500. ... complete with a 'dent bag'. Great deals are around!

[Ace]

… but not many people have that kind of patience.…

And that is the whole problem. "I want it NOW, daddy!"

Good one! Reminds me of Puccini's comic opera, "Gianni Schicchi", in which the spoiled young lady works her father in order to have her way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tofdd1MGdaY" target="_blank

Ace, father of two daughters

[Michael Bush]

As for Jim Laabs' "Schiller" fiction, I don't like it either but ALOT of US companies do the same thing (for example, M&M USA stamped on their Chinese horns) and we all know why. Lets not single out Laabs for something thats long been an American business tradition.

Perhaps its a matter of shades of grey, but Laabs' grey is darker than M & M's or anyone else's that I know of. It goes well beyond having a stencil house brand, like M & M or Dillon's.

M & M has the maker put "USA" on their horns, and we know the horns aren't made here. But at least M & M is an American company.

The Laabs-imported Chinese horns have nothing whatsoever to do with Frankfurt or any other city in Germany, but they put "Frankfurt, Germany" on the horns and cases.

And neither M & M nor any other company I know of importing Chinese stencils has a (plausible-sounding and probably fictional) narrative on their web site about how they're somehow connected with a rags-to-riches instrument maker born in Berlin in 1860 and whatever whatever whatever. You have to ask what else they're making up as they go along.

[bort]

Sounds kind of like the corny labels on Apple products "Designed by Apple in California. Assembled in China." Like, the trendy cool way to say "Made in China."

[Bob Kolada]

I am continually amazed at how many people are shocked at this. Do you all really think advertising is exactly what it says it is?

[Michael Bush]

Without speaking for anyone else, I'll say I'm not shocked in the slightest. I just don't like it. And since they guy asked for advice I'm giving it.

[TexTuba]

I am continually amazed at how many people are shocked at this. Do you all really think advertising is exactly what it says it is?

As for Jim Laabs' "Schiller" fiction, I don't like it either but ALOT of US companies do the same thing (for example, M&M USA stamped on their Chinese horns) and we all know why. Lets not single out Laabs for something thats long been an American business tradition. JJ

[big_blue_tubist]

Call first! Make sure that there will be enough instruments to test drive BEFORE you go.

**edit** just noticed you said you were going today. Hope you got/get to play plenty!