Brass Band transposition tips

[AHynds]

Hello, one and all!

I am playing with a brass band this Saturday, and I just wanted to make sure I'm reading the music correctly. Because it's mostly marches and other patriotic material, I'm using a few tricks to make sure I perform the proper transposition. I'm playing mostly BBb bass parts on my CC tuba, and for those parts, the trick that works for me is reading the music in bass clef and using F tuba fingerings. Yes, I know that is a little convoluted, but if I try to actual think of what the pitches are my brain tends to get a little tangled. Now, I do have one Eb part, and for that I am pretty much reading the part in bass clef, minus a few alterations for sharps and what-not. Are these two methods accurate, or am I making a huge mistake?

Thanks, and help would be great!
Aaron H.

[Bob Kolada]

That's not right but it's accurate.

[opus37]

I guess I a bit confused by your post. I've been playing bass or tuba parts for marches and other patriotic music for over 40 years. Everything I've seen is written in concert pitch. It doesn't matter which tuba you use, we all play the same note, if it's in your range. A BBb or a CC or an Eb will have different fingerings, but they play the same thing. If there is a high and a low part, the Eb horns usually take the high line and the BBb takes the low line. That is by convention not but part (unless the conductor puts you on a part). You may think F when playing CC, but why not just play your CC and enjoy it?

[AHynds]

I guess I a bit confused by your post. I've been playing bass or tuba parts for marches and other patriotic music for over 40 years. Everything I've seen is written in concert pitch. It doesn't matter which tuba you use, we all play the same note, if it's in your range. A BBb or a CC or an Eb will have different fingerings, but they play the same thing. If there is a high and a low part, the Eb horns usually take the high line and the BBb takes the low line. That is by convention not but part (unless the conductor puts you on a part). You may think F when playing CC, but why not just play your CC and enjoy it?

I should have mentioned earlier, I'm playing traditional UK-style brass band parts, which are written in treble clef and transposed (either in low Eb or BBb). Since I'm flitting back and forth between Eb, BBb and Concert pitch parts, I was just asking the TubeNet collective conscious if my little tricks will yield the proper results. I guess I also should have mentioned that I am doing this gig without any rehearsal, so I want to make sure I don't mess things up.

[Adam C.]

That's one way to do it. I get better results just knowing what the concert pitches are and translating that from BBb to CC, but I've been reading treble tuba parts for a while.

I'd prefer a rehearsal!

[opus37]

I guess I've never run into the traditional British Bass Band parts such as you described. I think you need an Eb horn. This would be easier to figure out.

[jmerring]

Even though it is traditional to write the tuba part in treble clef, I say that all tuba parts (British or not) be written in concert pitch. As music comes up for copyright renewal, an astute editor could do the job, quite easily. I realize that we all play the same pitches, but the difficult (at best) job of transposition-on-the-fly is just not necessary. Yes, I can play the damned parts for British Brass Bands; but I hate it.

[oedipoes]

Around here most BBb players have the opposite problem.
Standard notation is transposed to Bb and treble clef (like in brassband), or (probably confusing to most of you) bass clef and transposed to Bb + 1 octave.
This last mentioned practice may sound weird, but it has been common here forever. It has the advantage that most of the music for tuba can be written without extra lines.

The biggest problem here is when you get orchestral parts for the first time, and see all those notes below the staff (all that extra lines!!) + we need to transpose in our heads to C...

Playing the tuba is not that difficult, reading tuba music, that's the biggest challenge !

[Roger Lewis]

I used to use my HB50 with the brass bands that I play with and used a tenor clef transposition and added 2 flats to the key. Eb I read it in bass cleff and add 3 flats to the key signature. Both of these methods require modifying the notes with accidentals to get them where they are supposed to be.

Now days I use a BBb tuba for the BBb part and read it in straight treble cleff using CC tuba fingerings in the key that it is in. I still do the Eb parts the same way and those few that show up in bass clef I just try like heck to remember the BBb fingerings (or read it like a euphonium part, down an octave).

It is a challenge and I usually try to spend some time with the parts to make sure everything is lining up properly.

Good luck to you and all the best.

Roger

[ThomasP]

The only other option/explanation that I'm aware of is to read the BBb treble parts as if they're in Tenor clef. I think you have to add or subtract some flats/sharps. As for me, I steer clear of that and stick to Eb on Eb parts. give me bass clef with Eb and I have trouble!

[aqualung]

The British brass band people have been writing almost everything in treble clef much longer than they have been driving their cars on the left side of the road. They aren't going to change to concert pitch for the benefit of a few hundred Americans who happen to encounter their literature.
Every valved instrument in a brass band reads with cornet fingerings. What could be simpler?

[scottw]

The British brass band people have been writing almost everything in treble clef much longer than they have been driving their cars on the left side of the road. They aren't going to change to concert pitch for the benefit of a few hundred Americans who happen to encounter their literature.
Every valved instrument in a brass band reads with cornet fingerings. What could be simpler?

I think the complication with that is that we in this country are trying to play EEb parts on BBb or BBb parts on CC, and that leads to the departure from the rule.

[Mark]

Every valved instrument in a brass band reads with cornet fingerings. What could be simpler?

So, if you're playing a BBb tuba, every note that is fingered 13 or 123 is played sharp? Or, do BBb tubas used in British Brass Bands have a third-valve slide ring/kicker, like the cornet.

[tuba.bobby]

Every valved instrument in a brass band reads with cornet fingerings. What could be simpler?

So, if you're playing a BBb tuba, every note that is fingered 13 or 123 is played sharp? Or, do BBb tubas used in British Brass Bands have a third-valve slide ring/kicker, like the cornet.

We use the fourth valve instead of 1+3, or at least most of us do...

[tastuba]

Every valved instrument in a brass band reads with cornet fingerings. What could be simpler?

So, if you're playing a BBb tuba, every note that is fingered 13 or 123 is played sharp? Or, do BBb tubas used in British Brass Bands have a third-valve slide ring/kicker, like the cornet.

We use the fourth valve instead of 1+3, or at least most of us do...

And cringe when the guy sitting next to us doesn't

[Mark]

Every valved instrument in a brass band reads with cornet fingerings. What could be simpler?

So, if you're playing a BBb tuba, every note that is fingered 13 or 123 is played sharp? Or, do BBb tubas used in British Brass Bands have a third-valve slide ring/kicker, like the cornet.

We use the fourth valve instead of 1+3, or at least most of us do...

So, every valved instrument doesn't use cornet fingerings.

[pgym]

So, every valved instrument doesn't use cornet fingerings.

Um ... he didn't say they USE cornet fingerings, he said they READ cornet fingerings.

[iiipopes]

So, every valved instrument doesn't use cornet fingerings.

Yes, they do. Remember, the Blakely compensation system also comes in a 3-valve version, and I used to own one. A Besson New Standard BBb. A magnificent tank of a tuba. Looked like hell, played like heaven. I gave it to a friend of mine who needed a tuba and didn't have one. It still has the best scale of any tuba I have ever played, if you're willing to give up the notes below 1+2+3 E nat below open BBb. (that's concert pitch, which would be, in British Brass Band notation convention, the low F# below "middle" [1st ledger line below the treble clef] C).

And remember your elementary addition: 1+3=4. So all you do is substitute 4 and pull to pitch for any note that would be 1+3 on a cornet, and 2+4 for any note that would be 1+2+3 on a cornet. That involves all of four, yes, count'em, four notes, which are not often used, so it doesn't matter.

BTW: the 1st & 2nd trombone are also in treble clef. The only part written in concert pitch bass clef is 3rd or bass trombone, because both Boosey bass trombones in G as well as conventional Bb or Bb/F bass bones were used for the part historically.

[Mark]

So, every valved instrument doesn't use cornet fingerings.

Um ... he didn't say they USE cornet fingerings, he said they READ cornet fingerings.

And the difference is?

[Mark]

So, every valved instrument doesn't use cornet fingerings.

Yes, they do.

No, they don't. Most tubas, euphoniums and baritones playing in brass Bands use the fourth valve. Cornets do not have a fourth valve. The fingerings are not the same.

Also, many of the brass band BBb parts I have played go well below E natural.