Tchaik 4 question...

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Ben
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Re: Tchaik 4 question...

Post by Ben »

I guess this is slightly off topic but related...

tooba: can't promise a link until this weekend. The sample recordings are at my studio, and I won't be able to make the AB comparison tape until then.
tooba wrote:My CC tuba (M-W 5/4 rotary) is probably somewhat similar to the Alex 164
Did you mean to say 163? the 164 is truly a 6/4 BART - 0.846" bore. 163's (5/4) while mine has the 16.75" bell, still has 0.810" bore

Don't get me wrong, the 164 doesn't sound like a 345, it is much more direct than that... But there is a definite girth to the sound.

mp3 link to ensue... words are failing me!
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Re: Tchaik 4 question...

Post by toobagrowl »

Ben wrote: Did you mean to say 163? the 164 is truly a 6/4 BART - 0.846" bore. 163's (5/4) while mine has the 16.75" bell, still has 0.810" bore

Don't get me wrong, the 164 doesn't sound like a 345, it is much more direct than that... But there is a definite girth to the sound.

mp3 link to ensue... words are failing me!
Ben,

My M-W 5/4 CC (2155R) is probably between your Alex 163 and Alex 164 in physical size and sound. It has a 17.75" bell with a fat throat, is pretty tall and I THINK has a .807" bore. Bought the horn used about 11 years ago. I'd have to dig out some of the old WW&BW magazines to find it's listing and specs.
I have played several old Alex 163 CCs and one BBb and I'd call them large 4/4s. My horn is definitely bigger than the Alex 163, and with a touch more "pillow" to the sound. That's why I think it is probably similar to your Alex 164. :wink:

I think either Alex would work perfect on Tchaik 4 8)
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Re: Tchaik 4 question...

Post by Wyvern »

bloke wrote:I believe the tuba part to this symphony will sound really great on a tuba if you play it well on a tuba.
:) Probably true - will work on anything from large F to 6/4 CC if played well. We often get far too focused on equipment to use, while everyone else (other than tuba players) just wants a good sounding in tune, in time tuba. So best to just play on whatever instrument you feel you can do the most competent job, regardless of historical 'correctness', whatever that may be.
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Re: Tchaik 4 question...

Post by Ben »

Yup, thanks bloke ;)

I still have some work to do this weekend on cleaning a few things up. As I mentioned before, I had already chosen which instrument I was going to use after I made a few recordings about a week ago. I'll share those warts and all for sound reference comparison for tooba. Not many people get to hear an A-B comparison of these horns with the same player. Of course I am certain there are better players out there.
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Re: Tchaik 4 question...

Post by J.c. Sherman »

I've heard Ron Bishop do this one on both a 163 and a Rudy 3/4. Both sounded great. Bevan's notes are right on, and Russian composers weren't generally on top of "the change" to BBb... it happened and the terminology changed later. Tchaikovsky's writing is the most flexible tuba writing out there: ANYTHING works as long as it's conical!

I'd 163 it. You can get a touch of edge out of the 163 which will attack well. The 164 will be billowy... nice, and just as interesting as an F or Eb (which I've done it on and it works fine), but the 163 is - voicing wise and dynamic wise - the best choice for this IMHO.

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Re: Tchaik 4 question...

Post by J.c. Sherman »

bloke wrote:Has anyone watched the videos?
But of course ;-) Good stuff! He has the horns enter like Maazel!

Another note on this piece - basically you're doubled with the bass bone - you're not even (gasp :shock: ) necessary as a point of fact, so a bass tuba would work, especially with some of the higher voicing in the last movement. The big horn is in fact (to me) a little disruptive... but it's not half as bad as "Great Gate of Kiev".

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Re: Tchaik 4 question...

Post by Ben »

bloke wrote:Has anyone watched the videos?
yup. Gene sounds great, did you have something specific you wanted to point out? I would like to hear Gene play this on a 186/8, I think I would like that even more.

(a youtube of Rex Martin playing a Rudy under Solti too...)
Last edited by Ben on Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tchaik 4 question...

Post by J.c. Sherman »

bloke wrote:ophicleide
cimbasso
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Re: Tchaik 4 question...

Post by Ben »

J.c. Sherman wrote:
bloke wrote:ophicleide
cimbasso
contrabass sacbut
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Re: Tchaik 4 question...

Post by J.c. Sherman »

I can't breathe I'm laughing so hard!!! :lol:

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Re: Tchaik 4 question...

Post by tclements »

The 163 should be just FINE!
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Re: Tchaik 4 question...

Post by doublebuzzing »

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Re: Tchaik 4 question...

Post by J.c. Sherman »

doublebuzzing wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytWTHfyh ... re=related" target="_blank

:D
Plenty loud! :twisted:
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Re: Tchaik 4 question...

Post by Ben »

As promised. Rochut then T4 on 163 followed by Rochut and T4 on 164.

http://www.mediafire.com/?bt7w93agkk6xn" target="_blank

cavat: I've been taking it really easy on the horn for the last 6 weeks since my daughter was born. This was recorded two saturdays ago, my first practice session since the birth. Also on two horns I haven't been playing (giging on the 184 alot). This was my first time blowing the dust off this excerpt in over a decade. There are missed notes. There is bad rhythm. Bad choices in phrasing. These things I can fix, and I was not recording with the intention of every seriously releasing this. It does demonstrate the difference in attack and breadth of tone the horns have. Fire away, I've been slacking and I deserve it.
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Re: Tchaik 4 question...

Post by Ben »

J.c. Sherman wrote:
doublebuzzing wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytWTHfyh ... re=related" target="_blank

:D
Plenty loud! :twisted:

Sheesh...
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Re: Tchaik 4 question...

Post by UTSAtuba »

Off-the-main-topic:

Joe, I absolutely love that YouTube recording of the CSO. If that didn't tear paint off the walls, I don't know what will...
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Re: Tchaik 4 question...

Post by UTSAtuba »

@Ben: I just heard the recording you posted. Personally, I enjoyed the sound of the 164. More "gutsy" to me. Also, sounds better in tune.
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Re: Tchaik 4 question...

Post by J.c. Sherman »

UTSAtuba wrote:@Ben: I just heard the recording you posted. Personally, I enjoyed the sound of the 164. More "gutsy" to me. Also, sounds better in tune.
Ben, I'm changing my vote too. You sound very proper and even and with just the right "Tchaik" to it. 164.

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Re: Tchaik 4 question...

Post by toobagrowl »

@Ben: Thanks for the sound comparison clips. My M-W 5/4 CC is definitely closer in sound to the 164 than the 163. I can see why you said the 163 is more "muscular" in sound than the 164, though, because it sounds a little leaner and louder. The 164 has more "pillow" to the sound, but is still plenty centered/direct.

@Bloke: You wanna really hear a good, loud sustained "D" on Tchaik 4? Try to get a hold of the Bernstein/NY Phil recording on the DG label. Has Francesca Da Rimini on it too. Warren Deck on tuba. I think it was recorded around '89 or '90. :tuba:

This thread demonstrates why I still think a good Kaiser tuba works best for this piece (along with most 'big' orchestra works): more core/more center/more 'growl' than the 6/4 piston horns and more 'meat' than the 4/4 horns...
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