Stolen tuba located - I could use your help!

[ginnboonmiller]

I've just been on the phone with the police about a tuba for sale on the most popular online auction website, item #250852403809

This tuba was stolen from my in November 2008. Since its theft, I have collected insurance and purchased a new tuba - so I may have to turn this horn over to the insurance company for lack of funds, but I'd like to see what I can do about the whole affair.

Are you the high bidder? Are you willing to be the high bidder? (It's a great tuba in very playable shape, the valve linkages are a stone mess and probably need to be rebuilt, but the valves are in great shape) If so, are you willing to cooperate with the police and with me?

Or does anyone else have other suggestions? Maybe I should just drop the whole thing, because I don't have the money to pay back the original insurance claim from 2008. They gave me quite a bit in replacement value.

[bort]

Interesting... maybe one of the lawyer types on the board will know more.

But my first thought is that if you've moved on in life, and you don't want it back, maybe just report to the police and let it go. If reported as stolen to the police, they should notify Ebay and have the auction cancelled before anyone spends money on this.

Not to mention, the story in the auction could be true... it could just be a found item that this person doesn't know about.

If you do want it back though, then that's for you and your insurance company to decide how to move forward. I have no clue what the rules are about paying out/paying back, tax on those monies, any statutes of limitation, deductibles, or anything else. I also don't know if it's bad or not if you just called your insurance agent to discuss your options...I don't think they can force you to take back reclaimed property if you don't want it anymore.

[Michael Bush]

The tremendous winning bid suggests there's some interesting story unfolding.

It would be nice to get it dealt with even if you don't want the horn, just for the sake of justice.

[tbn.al]

Went over to look at the auction and found only 8 seconds left. I then saw that the horn had sold for $4383! Wow! Good luck unraveling the theft thing. I hope you and the police can trace it back to the original thief somehow.

[Dan Schultz]

WOW! Ended at $4,383.00. That's certainly more than I would have thought.

This is an interesting scenario. I would think that the insurance company is the legal owner of the horn and whoever bought it is going to have to battle to get their money back.

I buy a lot of stuff off Ebay. I figure one of these days I'm going to take delivery on an item that's 'hot' and have to give it up. I did bit on that horn early on... but certainly wasn't involved in the final bidding.

[ginnboonmiller]

Well, I've been back and forth with the police, eBay, a friend of mine who works in the legal department of ebay.

The good news - that high bid is mine. Email sent to try to get contact info so I can pick the horn up as he suggests in the ad. That info goes straight to the cops. From there, we'll figure it out. The horn will have to go back to the insurance company - I'm in no position to buy another tuba right now by paying back the replacement value claim that I made on the horn. But hopefully I'll get the suckers that took it in the first place.

And I was pretty shocked at that ending price, too. Seems high, but it's a great tuba and worth it once it's repaired.

Does anyone know what the insurance company will do with the tuba? I can't buy it back, but I'd love to see what it's up to and make sure it goes into good hands. It's a truly great tuba that served me for almost 20 years of regular gigging before the robbery.

[The Big Ben]

I would imagine the insurance company would auction it off. They want their money as soon as possible with minimum fuss and that would be the way to do it. You might ask your insurance agent where it might go.

[pgym]

Does anyone know what the insurance company will do with the tuba?

Sell it. Probably by seal bid; maybe by auction; possibly on consignment.

If you really want it, offer them the $4,300 you bid on it. They're not in the business of reselling recovered property, and they're going to want to minimize their costs to resell it, so assuming that's in the ballpark of what a horn of that age and condition would sell for, there's a pretty good chance they'll accept it to save the cost and hassle of selling it.

[Dan Schultz]

.... The good news - that high bid is mine. Email sent to try to get contact info so I can pick the horn up as he suggests in the ad. That info goes straight to the cops. From there, we'll figure it out. The horn will have to go back to the insurance company.....

Sounds like a mess to me.

I've had things like this happen that I tended to take personally that no one else really cared much about... including police, insurance companies, and other 3rd parties. It wouldn't surprise me if the seller turned out to be the in the clear since it's 'water under the bridge' to the insurance company and you owe the seller the auction price. I seriously doubt if the police will spend any time on the case.

I disagree with pgym inasmuch as the insurance company won't care. Offer them $500 for the horn.

Let us know how it turns out.

[Dan Schultz]

.... The good news - that high bid is mine. Email sent to try to get contact info so I can pick the horn up as he suggests in the ad. That info goes straight to the cops. From there, we'll figure it out. The horn will have to go back to the insurance company.....

Sounds like a mess to me.

I've had things like this happen that I tended to take personally that no one else really cared much about... including police, insurance companies, and other 3rd parties. It wouldn't surprise me if the seller turned out to be the in the clear since it's 'water under the bridge' to the insurance company and you owe the seller the auction price. I seriously doubt if the police will spend any time on the case.

Let us know how it turns out.

[bort]

Although it's none of my business what the actual $$ amount was, I'm a little curious about the scale of the original insurance settlement. Were you reimbursed the amount needed to buy a new tuba? (Again, you don't have to answer, I'm just throwing out thoughts...)

I've always been under the impression that the payout is the value, not the replacement cost. Like, if you're eating an apple and someone knocks half an apple out of your hand onto the ground, legally, they would only owe you half an apple.

One thing's for sure, I'm checking my insurance policies when I get home tonight.

[ginnboonmiller]

The horn was taken during a break in, and the homeowner's policy granted me replacement cost, which they calculated by depreciating the cost of a new replacement - at that time, it was a very high price, indeed, for a new Rudi Meinl. That was their decision, I took it, bought a tuba.

Meantime... the police have been very interested, which is great, they've moved fast, as have ebay. I'd love to have the tuba back, but I have a tuba now and I've never been too emotional about my equipment... and I also am in no position whatsoever to buy a new tuba.

I'm doing this for justice, really, and the insurance company can do what they like with the horn, including selling it to me for a song if they choose. The same way the insurance company is not in the business of selling recovered property, though, I am also not in the business of canceling gigs and holding on to a check for three years "just in case." For me, this is a very interesting end to a very strange story, and worth whatever happens in the end because of that.

[pgym]

and I also am in no position whatsoever to buy a new tuba.

Could I interest you in a used one?

[ginnboonmiller]

and I also am in no position whatsoever to buy a new tuba.

Could I interest you in a used one?

I could probably trade you a fixxer-upper of questionable ownership if you keep it quiet.

[pgym]

I've always been under the impression that the payout is the value, not the replacement cost. Like, if you're eating an apple and someone knocks half an apple out of your hand onto the ground, legally, they would only owe you half an apple.

Depends on the terms of your policy: some companies cover only actual cash value (replacement cost minus depreciation), some cover up to the declared value, and some cover up to replacement value.

[ginnboonmiller]

For what it's worth:

I don't have any details beyond a very brief phone message, but my tuba is currently being transported to the city police station!!

Of course, I moved to New York in the last three years. So I can't come down to identify it before Tuesday. But there is absolutely no question that this is my horn - I've never seen another like it.

Now I identify it, release it to the insurance company, and see if I can't get it from them for a song. Otherwise, I'll post the details of their decision, because someone should be playing this instrument.

[ginnboonmiller]

Also, a public thanks to the forum.

J.c. Sherman recognized the horn from a thread in the eBay forum, and dropped me a line here. That got the ball rolling in the first place. I can't thank you guys, especially J.c., enough!!! I've known the guy for, what, J.c., 22 years? He was around when I first bought that horn, and he was the driving force behind its recovery.

Thanks!

[ginnboonmiller]

What about the creep that stole the horn in the first place?
Any word on that person?

Sadly, none. The seller wasn't charged with anything - she had a clean record, and her story didn't check out completely, but it checked out enough. And the case is three years old, so pretty tough to follow any trails at this point.

The detective thinks that seller bought it from the thieves after they couldn't dump it off in a pawn shop, and made up a couple stories to stay out of trouble.

And so it goes.

[tubajoe]

I absolutely can vouch for this horn. It's a great one. A vintage Rudy -- deep, while light when it needs to be, with a mature core to the sound.

So glad it was found! I'd hate to hear of this horn ending up in a scrap heap. May the person who stole and pawned it end up in hell in a room of piccolos playing in unison.

[ginnboonmiller]

May the person who stole and pawned it end up in hell in a room of piccolos playing in unison.

...nearly in unison.

It is the way of the piccolo.