Bass Trombone/Tuba Doubling

[TinyTubist97]

First off I want to say I know I was on here asking about Bass Tubas not too long ago, but my mom and I talked me out of it.
At my level the benefit of having a Bass Tuba was less than the amount that the new fingerings would have hindered me.

I love the tuba and would be just fine playing it and nothing else but I'm at the stage in my student career where some people are starting to switch instruments or branch out, which is what I'm interested in. I used the process of elimination to decide which instrument would best fit me as a second instrument and this is kind of how it went:

I want to stick with brass, that left me with Trumpet, Tenor and Bass Trombone, Bass Tuba, Cimbasso, F Horn, and Euphonium/ Baritone.
I also want it to be low brass and have as similar mouthpiece to a Tuba. This left me with a few options, Cimbasso, Bass Tuba, and Bass Trombone.
I then narrowed it down further by eliminating the Bass Tuba because I want to branch out a little bit more than that. That left me with the Bass Trombone and the Cimbasso.
Based on my knowledge, the Cimbasso Isn't as common as the Bass trombone which usually means higher prices and less availability.
After that I still wasn't completely sure, but any trace of doubt in my mind about Bass Trombones was incinerated when I watched this video!!!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEcDxMVO ... re=related" target="_blank" target="_blank

I also know that Bass Trombone Isn't as common as a Trumpet or Flute, which at honor bands means less competition. That's the same with tuba, which is one of the best things about it in my opinion. I already tried playing Tenor Trombone but the mouthpiece change was far too drastic. (I went from a Jupiter 24AW to a Conn 12c).
The slide positions came to me easily and my naturally relaxed embouchure helped with the sound quality.
(Don't get me wrong, it still sounded like a dying goat!!!!!!!)

And probably the biggest reason i'm considering this is because I'm in one of my schools Jazz bands playing tuba but I'm pretty terrible at improv and Jazz playing on tuba, but on Trombone improv comes naturally.

Any help with a decision would be very much appreciated!!!! If anyone has experience with branching out from tuba I would love to hear about it. And by the way I'm entering my freshman year in High school.

Also if anyone is willing to let go of a Bass Trombone with at least 1 trigger preferably with a mouthpiece, for $300 or less or knows where to find one, TELL ME PLEASE!!!! I would prefer one that is a good and model. Esthetics don't matter. (To a certain extent!!!!)

PLEASE DONATE TO THE CHILDREN WITHOUT A BASS TROMBONE FOUNDATION!! IT'S GOING TO A GOOD CAUSE! CHILDREN JUST LIKE ME SUFFER EVERYDAY FROM CONDITIONS LIKE:

Ihavenobasstromboneitis! And Lackofbasstromboneaphobia!

THESE ARE BOTH SERIOUS CONDITIONS AND IF LEFT UNTREATED MAY LEAD TO DESPERATEMUSICIANABIFIDA!! THIS CAUSES MUSICIANS TO BUY AN INSTRUMENT OFF OF EBAY FOR $200 BRAND NEW IN DESPERATION TO GET AN INSTRUMENT!!!!!

To save a child today, P.M me, or post a reply........

[rodgeman]

I would not worry about doubling. I would just work on my primary instrument.

Good luck.

[Biggs]

I can't wait for school to start.

[TinyTubist97]

Same here. Practicing tuba for 4 hours a day was fun but my lips can only handle so much buzzing...

[tubacorbin]

As someone who has done a little bit of doubling on bass trombone, I would advise you to become VERY proficient on one instrument first. After you have learned tuba, learning trombone will be easier. Right now you are just beginning your journey on tuba. My advise would be to stick with one instrument right now and be the best player you can be on that instrument.

[Rev Rob]

Don't discount the Euphonium, same fingerings as a double B flat tuba, and it is easier to carry than a tuba. This may sound heretical but also consider electric bass and stand up string bass for possible branching out instruments. Once you learn Bass Clef and understand a little music theory, chord structure and harmony, improvisation on any bass instrument will happen naturally - even on a tuba.

[TinyTubist97]

I can improvise really well on piano. And I already know Bass Clef and some music theory. And @goodgigs I don't know If this counts but to practice improv and playing with others I do a lot of improv singing/humming to different songs which helps me a lot with improv on other instruments.

[SplatterTone]

And then there is doubling on tuba and sopranino recorder on the same piece.
http://t-recs.net/mpegs/FBC/2011/concer ... _world.mp3

Caveat: It is generally considered a grievous violation of good taste for somebody who knows nothing about playing Irish to try to play Irish anyway, doing it on a damned recorder (a Hohner!!) instead of a real whistle, and doing it when your recorder chops have gotten rusty. But when it's either that or nothing (or worse: a flute), then you blow whatever smoke you can and move on.

There is bound to be a pub band out there desperate for a tub(a)ist who can also fill in on whistle (a whistlist?). I have long been convinced that is one thing the band Great Big Sea needs.

[cavalierbari]

Hey Tiny, I used to be in very similar shoes when I was younger! I'm now 26 and I can comfortably say that I am a professional doubler on ALL the low brass instruments. I've played lead thru bone 5 on hundreds of jazz charts, did the Cosma on euphonium and have experienced the joys of faking the CCCC in Encounters II for solo tuba.

Some advice on doubling...

Remember, at this stage of the game you are developing yourself as a MUSICIAN whose voice just so happens to be the tuba. You need to be able to speak very cleary with this voice before you can move on to the other voices.

Bass Trombone is the trombone you graduate to after you've figured tenor out, IMHO. To play it well, you have to be able to do EVERYTHING the tenor trombones can play, AND have a characteristic sound in the low register to be successful on bass. Charles Vernon (bass trombone, CSO) was exclusively a tenor trombone player until just a few months before he auditioned for Baltimore when he picked up a bass for the first time.

I started 6th grade as a euphonium player, and picked up tuba in 8th grade and doubled on both thru high school, but I always kept euphonium as my solid primary, AND STILL DO! I was eventually a top 5A All-Stater in Texas because I kept my focus on my primary horn. I did dabble on trombone along the way with some success, but purposely didn't take it seriously until college so I could have more exposure to other ensembles that weren't concert band.

Stay the course, establish yourself as a tuba player, pick up euphonium NOW (on a Schilke 51D mouthpiece) so you are better prepared to transfer to trombone later down the road. You don't learn to bench press 500 pounds by simply trying to bench press 500 pounds; you work your way up.

[Donn]

For a trombone, bass trombone has all kinds of special problems. It's expensive and complicated. The majority opinion seems to be that you need 2 valves, which makes for lots more slide positions to learn and an ergonomic nightmare, also of course very heavy. I personally know at least one player who gave up strictly because of injury. The range is peculiar, way lower in its theoretical range than other brass instruments, but no one can precisely describe the "money" range that you really need to prioritize because "bass trombone" could mean anything to an arranger, from 3rd trombone to slide tuba. They would be expensive anyway just on account of size and complexity, but they also have not been made in great quantities - modern bass trombone is fairly recent (and still maybe in transition in Europe?), there is not much of a student market. Practically every older US made bass trombone model has become a sort of collector item, of the kind where bass trombonists want to have one due to its reputation but mostly leave it in the closet while they play their Edwards or whatever.

Still, of course, people play bass trombone anyway. I'm fooling around with it, but it isn't getting in the way of my music career because it isn't going much of anywhere anyway. To really get anywhere with it on a serious level, I imagine this is one of those instruments where you really need help from someone who knows bass trombone and knows how to teach it. There's a lot of technique in there, and to learn it wrong is just a huge waste of time and money.

[normrowe]

I started on Eb tuba in the 6th grade. Moved up (down?) to BBb the next year and by 8th grade was playing in the high school band. It was at that point I took up trumpet on the side, but it messed up my tuba sound so I got rid of it and took up tenor trombone in 10th grade but kept tuba as my main axe. I was first chair All-State (CA) my senior year and got a full ride to the Music Academy of the West. In 1967 I was in my third season as principal tuba in the Santa Barbara Symphony and taking lessons from Roger Bobo when I decided bass trombone was a better fit for me. I started with an old Bach single trigger but moved on to a Reynolds stacked double-trigger the following year. In 1977 as a graduate student with mixed emphases on performance and education I signed a contract with the F. E. Olds company to be a bass trombone clinician for them and ended up with the Olds P-24G inline double trigger that's still my main horn. I also "double" on a variety of instruments including tuba, euphonium, tenor and alto and soprano trombones, French horn, trumpet and cornet (embouchure problems solved), oboe, recorders, saxes, drum set, and more. But I'll second the recommendations that you make sure you're solid on one instrument before you venture toward others.

Yes, getting a decent bass trombone can be a bit spendy and they can be complicated. But they're also a lot of fun. Anything you pick up in the $300 range will either be a gift or a bad horn that'll be more harm than good. Single trigger is fine. There are several top professionals that stick with only one valve (George " Mr. Bass Trombone" Roberts for one). Most these days have two, some stacked and some inline, and several with modular horns that allow you to remove the second valve when it's not really needed for a particular piece/gig (and even both if all one needs is a straight horn). But you're definitely talking big bucks for one of those animals. It used to be that a bass trombonist was a pretty rare breed, but these days they're much more plentiful and the field is about as competitive as tenor trombone. A decent used bass trombone can be found in the $1.0-2.5K area with new ones on up from there.

Euphonium is a good double, but it's rarely used in orchestra or jazz. Your real opportunities are pretty much limited to band, brass band, euphonium/tuba quartets, and solo. And even there, if you're going for excellence, you'll need a 4-v compensating model. There are several available, but be ready for a $3-6K price tag for a new one. Decent used ones can be found in the $1.5-3K range.

Tenor trombone can be a good double, but I think that 12C piece is way too small for you. I use a Schilke 52D although a 51D is pretty close and would still work better for you.

While seemingly out in left field, the oboe has been a good double for me. I'm in my seventh season with the area orchestra as principal oboe and have played principal/1st oboe in a number of groups over the years. Got my first paying gig on it about six months after touching an oboe for the first time in my life! Good (sometimes even just decent) oboe players tend to be in demand all over the place. The fingerings are a bit different from tuba, but you can get used to that. The mouthpiece is a bit smaller too and designed slightly differently and it uses almost no air. One of the first things an oboe player learns to do is anticipate when he/she will need more oxygen and prepare to exhale and then inhale. You just don't run out of air for the oboe.

Good luck!

[Jack Denniston]

I think a lot depends on one's musical goals. Since I'm not playing for a living and my goal is to have fun making music, it has made a lot of sense for me, as a tuba player, to double on bass trombone and euph. I still do most of my performing on tuba, but I've also had lots of good times playing bass bone and euph when opportunities arise. And it has opened up the variety of ensembles I can play with (e.g., bass bone in brass quartets and orchestras, euph part in tuba quartets, and bass bone in trombone choirs and big bands). I've never made a lot of money as a performer, but some years I think I've had more paying gigs on bass bone than on tuba. These days I don't practice the bass bone or euph, so I'm not up to doing solos, but I can pick up the horn and cover the parts well enough for me, and those around me, to enjoy it.