questions for Besson 983 owners

[octavelower]

I inherited a wonderful Besson 983 Eb tuba but I have some questions.

First, it seems that the F one space below the bass clef (4th valve) is a bit stuffy (weird cuz the low Bb same valve isn't)
Has anyone had any work done to the horn that would help this?

Second, G on the 4th space seems flat, 1-2 seems to work instead of playing it open. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

I have also heard that this particular horn is very mouthpiece sensitive, does changing the mouthpiece help either of these two issues?? I have tried a Schilke 66, Helleburg, Helleburg 7B, and Yamaha F tuba mouthpiece. While these mouthpieces do change the tone a bit, I haven't noticed any big difference.

***Clarification***
Of the four mouthpieces I have tried 3 are funnels and one is not, they all make quite a difference in the tone but not the pitch. Also, they all seem to sit pretty for out of the receiver. In other words, they all lengthen the lead-pipe more than on my other instruments so I assume that this might account for the odd pitch and I propose that if I were to find a mouthpiece that fit more completely into the receiver, the pitch might be improved. Thoughts??

Another curiosity, the metal is quite thin and very easy to dent, I have a lacquered version, is it any better on the silver plated horn?

***Clarification***
The only place I feel that the metal is thin is on the bottom bow, I have accidentally put a dent in it with my thumb. The rest of the horn seems to be of normal thickness.
Anyone else notice this??

I really enjoy this tuba, these are fairly minor issues. As I practice on this tuba, I am figuring out how to blow the F more consistently. Overall I really like the character of this horn.

Thanks for your time.

CDRom

[joh_tuba]

I've never owned one but I've been around them enough to say that all those issues are completely typical.

Good luck

[octavelower]

This particular instrument was purchased in 2000 so I am not sure where they were making them at that time.

[Steve Marcus]

I inherited a wonderful Besson 983 Eb tuba but I have some questions.

First, it seems that the F one space below the bass clef (4th valve) is a bit stuffy (weird cuz the low Bb same valve isn't)

One would expect there to be some notes on a compensating horn to be stuffy. However, I've always been amazed and pleased at how my 983 lacks the stuffiness about which others complain (sometimes the same complaint is heard about the low C on F horns). If there is a difference in the speech characteristics of the F at the bottom of the clef vs. the Bb below that, it is infinitesimal on my 983. Both notes play clearly without much, if any, special awareness of air supply.

Second, G on the 4th space seems flat, 1-2 seems to work instead of playing it open. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

On my 983, the difference in playing the G open vs. 1-2 is almost imperceptible. On fast passages, I'll play the G open if it's more comfortable than 1-2.

I have also heard that this particular horn is very mouthpiece sensitive, does changing the mouthpiece help either of these two issues??...I haven't noticed any big difference.

Here we differ again. I have noticed significant difference in performance with one mouthpiece or another. Pat Sheridan was involved in the design of this model. Dillon Music used to sell the mouthpiece that was designed specifically for the 983 (was the model designation PS3?), but stopped production after they had a fire. I tried one that a friend of mine owns, but I prefer a thinner rim. I use a Laskey 28C.

Another curiosity, the metal is quite thin and very easy to dent, I have a lacquered version, is it any better on the silver plated horn?

My silver 983 was purchased used. Its former owner offered it at an attractive price, in part because there had been some dents and cosmetic damage. I have not had any problems with easy denting. I'm sure that during the time that I've owned the 983 I must have knocked it at least once, but my horn (built in UK) doesn't seem nearly as thin as other other horns that I've held.

The only disappointment that I've had about the 983 is that the high G# above the staff (Bydlo) doesn't slot well at all. Pat Sheridan admits that this was a shortfall from the very beginning through further development of the model. The answer that I've been given is that I should resign myself to more effort and practice time than what might seem reasonable to play that note reliably and solidly. OTOH, I've been reminded not to "diss" a beautiful sounding and playing horn just because it has one "bad" note. I've been extremely pleased with the ease of play and excellent intonation of my 983 since I acquired it. I was shopping for a bass tuba and was willing to accept an F or an Eb. The 983 seemed like the best choice for me because I don't do much solo playing; I wanted a horn that served well in small ensembles and in orchestras playing lighter music such as Mendelssohn.

[sousaphone68]

Hello for the G at the top or bottom of the stave try just the third valve this works for me also as an alternative for C especially middle C.
For the F try the fourth valve.

[ral1988]

First, it seems that the F one space below the bass clef (4th valve) is a bit stuffy (weird cuz the low Bb same valve isn't)
Has anyone had any work done to the horn that would help this?

It's compensating horn - best advice is to just practice getting used to it.

Second, G on the 4th space seems flat, 1-2 seems to work instead of playing it open. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

I found it easy to lip it up, but it took practice to get used to it.

I also found playing 3rd valve instead of 1-2 was better for most notes (Gs, Cs, except for Middle C and E).

***Clarification***
Of the four mouthpieces I have tried 3 are funnels and one is not, they all make quite a difference in the tone but not the pitch. Also, they all seem to sit pretty for out of the receiver. In other words, they all lengthen the lead-pipe more than on my other instruments so I assume that this might account for the odd pitch and I propose that if I were to find a mouthpiece that fit more completely into the receiver, the pitch might be improved. Thoughts??

I personally love using PT-64/65. I have the Pat Sheridan Dillion mouthpiece (I think the PS2), but I found it too big for my needs (made it hard for me to play in the high register). I come back to it once and while and it's a great mouthpiece, but not for my playing. Anyway, I think the bowl shape works better on this horn.

Another curiosity, the metal is quite thin and very easy to dent, I have a lacquered version, is it any better on the silver plated horn?

***Clarification***
The only place I feel that the metal is thin is on the bottom bow, I have accidentally put a dent in it with my thumb. The rest of the horn seems to be of normal thickness.
Anyone else notice this??

Generally it's a well-built horn, but it's not a tank. Just be careful with it.

[TMurphy]

The stuffiness of the F is just something you'll have to get used to. It feels a little different, but it doesn't sound that way out front.

Definitely correct about the high G. I also find that my 1-2 combination tends to be a bit sharp, but is easily fixed by a short pull of the first valve slide. As for mouthpiece, I've been using a Denis Wick 2SL for years on mine, and have no complaints.

[J.c. Sherman]

Completely typical issues. You might also find a flat high D and Eb, which work well 1&2 and 1.

I use a Yamaha Self for the most volume, but prefer a Miraphone C4 for general use. Both have about the same tuning.

Cut your 4th tubing by about a total of 5/8". The F will EXPLODE out. It's infinetesimally flat and unstable otherwise. Absolutely tollerable as is, but you'd be shocked by the change. E will improve a lot, as will low Ab.

The lacquered instruments - for me - play better than the silver ones.

YMMV.

J.c.S.

[jon112780]

Play the 'F' at the bottom of the staff 1+3 (pull the 1st slide). I do a lot of 1st slide pulling on mine.

Every horn plays a bit differently. One of the guys I went to grad school with also had a 983, but newer. Mine played a bit sharp in the upper register, his was a bit flat. Ho hum...

Hope this helps.

[J.c. Sherman]

I use a Yamaha Self for the most volume, but prefer a Miraphone C4 for general use.

See how one limits their options when nursing an anti-stainless steel superstition...even if a free trial is offered...??

Not really a superstition, per se; more a discomfort. I prefer gold plate over silver plate, and nickel-silver over brass as the mouthpeice material. To each their own; stainless just doesn't feel good to me. Certainly no judgement, sir - and all due respect (a great deal of it!).

[jeopardymaster]

I've posted these a few times before, but I'll repeat. When I picked out my 983 at WWBW, Charlie Krause had 8 of them on site. This was in the Fall of 1998. None of them played well when I used my Perantucci. Charlie recommended the 3L that was sold with the horn, and 2 of them improved dramatically, making the choice pretty easy. As others have posted, the 3L is pretty much the same as a Bach 24AW, which had once been my mouthpiece of choice and is once more, as of that day. I don't have the trouble you describe with the F or G, but 4th line f is a tad flat and in some keys I have to push 1 - no biggie. And yeah, I have trouble slotting the high g#1 too. The metal is very thin compared to my other horns, and it is very easy to ding, yes. My other beefs are, 1) when I really cranked it, I could blow the tuning slide and/or the 2nd valve slide out, but after I had the pipes flared just a smidgen that problem was solved; and related 2) the tuning slide is too short, so I pack a bit in my bag just in case. Overall I'm thrilled with my 983. Love it in quintet and orchestra in lieu of an F - which I never learned to play decently anyway.

[PDCIITuba]

i found that in most cases on my horn the F plays better 1 and 3 rather then 4 because it tends to be a little stuffy on mine too and i found that a Miraphone C4 and a Mike Finn 1 both work real well on this horn.

[ral1988]

Just to update on this topic, I've been using a Bruno Tilz WH F2 for the past two years, and it works well. It has helped with articulation and a easier time with the high register (it was somewhat flat otherwise).

[elihellsten]

Just about every compensated Eb I've every played has had a stuffy F and E... And a not very stuffy low Bb. Typical compensation system-issue it would seem. Same goes for several compensated Bb-basses I've tried, the low C (fourth valve) is often very stuffy.

Last fall I played a short tour on a borrowed 983. I got in the last minute, with two days to rehearse before going on tour. After the first rehearsal I sat several hours finding out how to make the F and E sound good... and I do think I made them work.

[J.c. Sherman]

I just picked up a new-to-me 980 (sorta... an Imperial style Besson). Better than my older battle ax, even though it's older than the one I sold. This one was physically younger and unoverhauled.

I went right to the mouthpiece I had grown used to with my old one, a Yamaha Self. This horn told me in no uncertain terms "NO!" Wen't back to my trusty Miraphone C4 and all was happy again... My other horn must've had a leak or something to make the Self work.

On a lark during a session recently, I put in my Yamaha CB, thinking it wouldn't work well. I'm surprised to report it worked fantastically. I'll probably add some mass to it, but right now, I'm a damn happy camper. If you like a funnel mouthpiece, give this one a try.

Incidentally: I play low Bb 1&3, and while many of these comp Effers have screwy Es, this one doesn't. Properly ported, these are graduated bore horns, so you do have to adapt to it a little to center it properly, but it's quite good. F on the staff can often be played very well with 4th. 1 & 3 on the other F make them fabulously sharp IMHO.

J.c.S.

[Jess Haney]

I have also noticed the tuning irregularities in these little horns. I have never owned one but dabbled on a few. The first was a girlfriend's of mine in college. It had the typical 4th stuffiness and the brittle bottom bow. I remember because when I sent the horn in to have dents removed as a birthday present all of the laquer on the bottom came off. The componsation system also felt more akin to the top-side 982. The second horn was a colleage's that was silver plate and much sturdier metal on the bottom bow. Though the silver had fallen off of it in chunks the horn played better and the comp system was much improved without resistance and overall a better horn. The next one I played was the newest and when Besson was going through their passing from owner to owner. It was not impressive at all and the owner was looking to sell due to it not slotting well PERIOD at the top of the staff. The final one I played is owned by a member of our brass band and has a great sound and feel all the way around. the horn is very soloistic and playes in tune with minor adjustments. My findings FWIW. Just interesting the way horns are made and changed through the years. I want to play one of the new German made horns soon. I have also found similar discrepencies with Willson 3400 Ebs as well.