YEP 321 Eb vs Chinese Fletcher clone?

[fsgazda]

The title says it all. I am looking for an Eb, and don't want to spend more than $2500 (tuba is my 4th instrument).

This will be my only tuba. I generally only double on tuba in quintet and the occasional pit orchestra. I may play a solo every now and again or play in other small groups, but I never anticipate having to hold down a large group by myself. I need 4 valves for sure. I do need a reliable B-flat and low F, and a good E would be nice. I would prefer front valves, but can deal with top.

Finally, I have seen the Fletcher clone advertised at 2 different stores (one in the northwest, one in the far southeast). The price is substantially different. Is this the same horn from the same factory? If you know the difference or have experience, please PM me (I don't want to start something on the forum).

All opinions are welcome!

[bigboymusic]

The 321 would be great except for the low E. The low F 1234 has been very full on the couple I have owned. I will say that I have played three of the 'clones' now, and they are not bad at all. The low E was a bit stuffy, but it has been on a lot of 981 and 982 Bessons I've played. If I 'had' to choose I would still lean towards the 321, but for the price (and considering what you use it for) a pick of the litter clone would probably do you well......

[Alex F]

I'll start with a technical clarification. YEP = euphonium; YEB = Eb tuba.

I don't think you can really compare a YEB-321 to the Besson 981 based Fletcher clone made by Jin Bao (?). They are different horns altogether.

[Levaix]

I played the YEB-321 for a semester in brass band, and I would encourage you to go with something else if you can. (But it's possible the design has been improved, I suppose...)

[sousaphone68]

I'll start with a technical clarification. YEP = euphonium; YEB = Eb tuba.

I don't think you can really compare a YEB-321 to the Besson 981 based Fletcher clone made by Jin Bao (?). They are different horns altogether.

+1
the Yamaha tuba is sold as a beginner/intermediate tuba the Chinese Clone is based on a model more suited to an advanced or dedicated player.
I have played both a Besson 981 and a clone I own a clone, a Fletcher clone is the way to go and if shiny finish floats your boat look for a silver plated one as the finish is considered better than the lacquered one.

[ghmerrill]

If I might opportunistically piggyback on this thread with a bit of a diversion ...

First: I played a 321S for two or three years and liked it -- though it was my first tuba, so what was not to like? I felt I had to abandon it as a good choice for a full-sized community band, but it was fine for me in smaller ensembles. I miss it. (It did have a main tuning slide trigger retrofit to it, which helped some of the intonation issues.)

Now the diversion -- since people are talking about Ebs. It is outside of the price range specified by quite a bit (unless you could find one used), but I wonder what people think of the St. Petersburg 206 as compared to both the 321 and a compensating horn. If I get any extra money in the next year, I will be sorely tempted to think in the direction of that horn. But I wonder primarily (a) how much does the thing weigh? and (b) how is it in terms of intonation and particularly the low range? Does the fifth valve give it a good low (contra-ish) range, or is it mostly useful for intonation otherwise? I'd be looking for an Eb with (at least) 4 valves that isn't too heavy (which I think rules out the comps). Something like the Cerveny Eb seems just a bit large to me for an Eb. And I'm not in the league of considering a Norwegian Star.

[Tubainsauga]

I know a couple of people who use the YEB 321 as a doubling horn and they're all quite fond of it (Also, the student/intermediate label doesn't mean much. I know of at least one pro who uses it for Symphonie Fantastique). It's a nice, basic, and versatile horn. I haven't tried the fletcher clone, but I've heard good things about it as well and I've always been a fan of that style of horn. Both would be suitable and it's really just a matter of preference. That said, a used 321 will likely hold it's value if you decide to sell it at some point in the future.

[fsgazda]

I'll start with a technical clarification. YEP = euphonium; YEB = Eb tuba.

I don't think you can really compare a YEB-321 to the Besson 981 based Fletcher clone made by Jin Bao (?). They are different horns altogether.

Let me rephrase the question: I have heard good things about both horns. Which one, in your opinion, best fills my needs? Do you have issues with either horn, or glowing reviews?

Are there any other Eb's in that price range (more or less) that you can suggest?

[ghmerrill]

Here is my tentative hit list of Eb tubas with some sources and approximate prices (prices are sometimes rounded off and vary with vendor):

• Meinl Weston 2141 5 valve: ~ $8,000
• Cerveny CEB 641-4PX: ~ $3,550
• Cerveny CEB 651-4PX: ~ $3,600
• Yamaha YEB 321S: $2,000 or less used
• Schiller American Heritage 3 + 1 compensating: $1,900
• St. Petersburg 206N (or lacquer L) 5 valves: $3,600
• JinBao 3 + 1 comp: $1,650 (Fletcher model?)
• MM-TU 7000 Fletcher Model, 3 + 1 comp: $2,475

Then, in case you're not wedded to the Eb idea:

• JinBao 6 Rotor F tuba: $1,600

I know there are at least a few others as well.

[bisontuba]

HI-
The JinBao Eb 3+1 compensating (model JBEB 700) TUBA is a clone of the Besson 981. It is an excellent horn, and yes, all the different stencil markings-Schiller, Wessex, M&M, Tuba Exchange, Mack, JinBao/Big Bottom Brass (did I leave someone out?)--are all the same animal.

The Yamaha 321 is a 4v Eb tuba also, but not compensating.

I have owned both, and would not hesitate to recommend either--and I think you would be happy with either too. I think you can pick up a JinBao new cheaper than a used Yamaha.

Good luck!
mark

[SousaSaver]

I'll start with a technical clarification. YEP = euphonium; YEB = Eb tuba.

I don't think you can really compare a YEB-321 to the Besson 981 based Fletcher clone made by Jin Bao (?). They are different horns altogether.

Let me rephrase the question: I have heard good things about both horns. Which one, in your opinion, best fills my needs? Do you have issues with either horn, or glowing reviews?

Are there any other Eb's in that price range (more or less) that you can suggest?

I don't mean to be a stick in the mud here, but your signature shows that you use a Conn 5J. Now if you just want a tight little horn for a few quintet gigs and pit that you can get some muscular low notes out of, you should be able to do it with your Conn. That Conn 5J isn't the smallest Tuba in the world, but it isn't exactly big either. Why not just use that and save the bucks?

[cjk]

JinBao 3 + 1 comp: $1,650 (Fletcher model?)

I laugh every time I read that tuba resellers are calling a Chinese copy of a Besson EEb the "Fletcher" model.

I would assume that by "Fletcher", they mean John Fletcher. I have to wonder if the folks using John Fletcher's name are supporting the John Fletcher Trust Fund. I would hope so.

http://www.johnfletcher-tuba.co.uk/" target="_blank

Unless they mean Daryl Fletcher? --> memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=597" target="_blank

[fsgazda]

I'll start with a technical clarification. YEP = euphonium; YEB = Eb tuba.

I don't think you can really compare a YEB-321 to the Besson 981 based Fletcher clone made by Jin Bao (?). They are different horns altogether.

Let me rephrase the question: I have heard good things about both horns. Which one, in your opinion, best fills my needs? Do you have issues with either horn, or glowing reviews?

Are there any other Eb's in that price range (more or less) that you can suggest?

I don't mean to be a stick in the mud here, but your signature shows that you use a Conn 5J. Now if you just want a tight little horn for a few quintet gigs and pit that you can get some muscular low notes out of, you should be able to do it with your Conn. That Conn 5J isn't the smallest Tuba in the world, but it isn't exactly big either. Why not just use that and save the bucks?

Perfectly fair question. I don't get to practice a lot of tuba, and when I just pick it up I have response issues on a BBb (even a small one like the Conn). Several doubler friends have suggested Eb. I have an old 4v German Eb that, from a pick up and play perspective is very easy. I like the sound and the response is great, even when I haven't played tuba in a while. However the pitch is atrocious, the B-flat and A below the staff are awful, and the false tones are not good (this is all for me, YMMV). So I am looking for an Eb that has good pitch and a better low end. The Yamaha and Besson 981 have been suggested to me (however even a used Besson is out of my price range, therefore the clone). I am open to any ideas, however.

[The Bone Ranger]

I laugh every time I read that tuba resellers are calling a Chinese copy of a Besson EEb the "Fletcher" model.

I would assume that by "Fletcher", they mean John Fletcher. I have to wonder if the folks using John Fletcher's name are supporting the John Fletcher Trust Fund. I would hope so.

I shudder a little each time I see the name 'Fletcher' associsted with this instrument. It feels a little dirty.

I wonder if more will feel similar when the 'Jacobs' model CC is released...

Andrew (who would not be surprised)

[tubaforce]

Ray,
Have you tried the Yamaclone of the 981? I liked that model better than the original!
I like 321's, but not as much as 981's or their clones (yes, I sell the clones), as all around Tubas, the 981 is my clear choice!
Before I coughed up the dough for a Yamaclone, I would be looking at the St.Pete EEb for a lot less. The 206(?) is the best deal on a 5-rotor EEb, IMHO. Maybe not quite as full in the low range, but I like rotors and 4th. valve inline!

Al

[ghmerrill]

But the St. Pete is a non-compensator, right?

Any thoughts on its advantages/disadvantages over a compensator? (Plus the fact that it's about $1,000 more than a comparable compensator clone.)

[Alex F]

I've never played the 981 or the JB version of the 981 so I can not comment on it.

There are four tubas in my community band: a VMI 3301, some Miraphone model, my King 2341 (new style), and a YEB-321S. The Yammie is played by an 86 year old guy and I am awed by the amount of sound and the nimbleness he can get out of that horn. Of the four mentioned, the Yammie is the smallest and lightest but holds its own in the ensemble. This was a major reason for me re-acquiring a 321 a couple of months ago.

Obviously, the best way to choose would be to try them out side by side but that can be hard to do.

As others have mentioned, I know a couple of pro players that own the Yammie 321 and still use it regularly. The ones that do are not selling theirs.

[Wyvern]

But the St. Pete is a non-compensator, right?

Any thoughts on its advantages/disadvantages over a compensator? (Plus the fact that it's about $1,000 more than a comparable compensator clone.)

I have not played the St. Pete, but as a rotary Eb it will no doubt have lighter tone than a compensated and would probably work nicely for quintet. However it could well be too light for some orchestral playing, or for band.

As a sole tuba to play anything you cannot beat a 19" bell compensated Eb. They work well for everything from solos, quintet, to band and orchestra. The 3+1 fingering arrangement makes moving around in the low register as easy as a BBb. Although not necessarily the 'best' for everything, they are the most adaptable of tubas! Many players in the UK use them for literally everything.

[tubaforce]

But the St. Pete is a non-compensator, right?

Any thoughts on its advantages/disadvantages over a compensator? (Plus the fact that it's about $1,000 more than a comparable compensator clone.)

Right! The St.Pete is non comping!
The 5 rotors allow access to the basement range, and facilitate difficult partials. If I had one, I would cut the 5th. valve to a long 1st. substitute! I actually prefer the sound of the 981 style Tuba by a small margin, and wish JinBao had cloned a front action set instead of the 3+1. British players would probably prefer the traditional set up, but the front action would open up the possibility of a 5th. rotor addition... for those of us who have been spoiled by 5-valves Having said the above, I would not be able to justify my additional cost to trade the fuller bottom for the convenience of rotors! If I were making money playing, I would be looking hard at a Kanstul...

Al

[tubaforce]

Ray,
the "Yamaclone" is what I call their copy of the Besson! I haven't tried any Chinese clones of the BBb compensators yet, but Yamaha's BBb Besson 3+1 clone is a big improvement over the original, IMHO!
Al