Tuba Information in Genreal!

[Bob Kolada]

A pedal tone Bb is hard the horns I play after that the way the valves are set up it seems impossible to get any lower even with all four valves and pulling slides.

How are you playing that note?

[PMeuph]

I see what y'all mean about lessons. I had about eight lessons with Mr. Kirk, he was very very helpful. Do y'all know if colleges will furnish a concert horn?(I have never marched before so I always mean concert)

Most schools have some horns... However, there is no way to know, except if you contact them or give us specifics about the schools you have in mind...

[tubagod94]

I play that pedal Bb open, and everything else is 4 and then the desired note fingering. I am looking at the Moores school of Music. I would be studying with Mr. Mark Barton, who I will soon be taking lessons from.

[tubagod94]

Mr. Kane!
I am very thankful for your "online lesson", and think it will be beneficial if I can just clarify what your saying.
Say if I am playing a low Eb which I have seen on fingering charts as 1 and 4, should I pull out the first valve slide or should I play it using the D fingering(1,2, and 4 for that octave)?

[Bob Kolada]

1+4+pull is the traditional way, but 124 works well too considering how easy it is to play sharp in the low register and if you're cranking it... I use flat fingerings most of the time in the pedal range (3 instead of 12, for example).

[tubagod94]

That makes much more sense. I have done that before, yet I have been told to use 1 and 4 instead. I will try that the next time I practice. I have developed a habit of always warming up with "pedal tones" for me that is the first Bb below the staff and down. So, I think this will help me a whole bunch!

[tubagod94]

Sweet! Thank you! False fingerings? I will look that up, it sounds interesting.

[Rick Denney]

I would get more lessons with David Kirk but it is quite expensive. I am going to start taking lessons from the Houston Ballet tuba player. A pedal tone Bb is hard the horns I play after that the way the valves are set up it seems impossible to get any lower even with all four valves and pulling slides. Any horn suggestions for me when I start to look in depth around for a good one?

If you can't afford some lessons with Mr. Kirk, you can't afford a new tuba. (That is not to say that Mark Barton, if that's who you are referring to in the Ballet Orchestra, would not also be a good choice.)

And...I'll bet you a medium-sized Chinese feast that anybody who can play a good pedal Bb on a their tuba can play it on both of your tubas, unless yours have leaks, in which case you need some easy repairs.

Rick "who has lots of tubas but wishes he'd studied with a high-end pro while still in High School" Denney

[Rick Denney]

Sweet! Thank you! False fingerings? I will look that up, it sounds interesting.

First, don't let Brian lead you astray with his enthusiasm. Yes, eventually, your range will significantly improve. But FAR MORE IMPORTANT than range is good tone in the range in which you can already play. Hint: The air and embouchure and mental concept that gives you good tone in the two octaves from low F to the F in the staff will also help you extend your range. Tone first, always.

False fingering, false tones, and so on are goofy names. There's nothing false abut them. There is a range of alternate resonances down in the bottom of most tubas that makes it possible to play below the low E without having to fight the four valves, which are the wrong length for those notes. Try this: Fill up with air (that is always step 1 of anything). Play a low Bb. Sag your embouchure to lower the pitch. Don't touch the valves. Just let the pitch sag as low as you can make it go. I bet you'll discover it jumps down to something below that low F, and you might be able to stabilize it on the low Eb. So, you can play a low Eb with no valves using the alternate resonance. It will not feel the same, and it may not sound the same (though it can with practice). You can then add the second, then the first, then the first and second, and so on to work your way down to the pedal Bb. But the pedal Bb will be played open again.

Rick "did I remember to say tone was more important than range?" Denney

[toobagrowl]

False fingering, false tones, and so on are goofy names. There's nothing false abut them. There is a range of alternate resonances down in the bottom of most tubas that makes it possible to play below the low E without having to fight the four valves, which are the wrong length for those notes.

I like to call those notes "ghost tones". Halloween is coming up in a few weeks after all Every horn is different though --- some tubas have better ghost tones than others.

Just to throw this out there: some of us use a 'shift' in our embouchure for really low notes and really high notes. I basically figured it out myself while tooting my tuba back in middle and high school. Works for me.

[Ken Herrick]

Ummmmmmmmm,just a minute guys. He's talking about playing on BBb instruments and referring to the Bb only two octaves below middle C as a "pedal" Bb. Now if that is causing difficulty - there are problems. Like, why would you want to be using 4th valve to get that Bb, A etc??

Me thinks maybe confusion is starting to set in. Maybe best to get to that teacher - quick.

[tubagod94]

No sir, I am talking about the Bb 3 octaves below the Bb above the staff blow middle C. The Bb that is 7 lines below the staff. I play it open, but will soon be trying to play like everyone else has been telling me about with the "false tones / fingerings)

[DHMTuba]

Get yourself to a teacher. You can develop some terrible habits and mess up your playing if you don't. I repeat - get to a teacher.

[toobagrowl]

No sir, I am talking about the Bb 3 octaves below the Bb above the staff blow middle C. The Bb that is 7 lines below the staff. I play it open, but will soon be trying to play like everyone else has been telling me about with the "false tones / fingerings)

That is pedal Bb (written BBBb).....but I think it is 8 lines below the staff. Don't have time to check right now to verify though. But that is pedal Bb. The ghost tones are right above that pedal Bb... from low Eb to low B natural.

[Lectron]

Your lower register is, from my experience, not particularly inconsistent with how you describe your upper register.

Well said Rick.

To the OP, I agree with Rick. Get some lessons from Dave Kirk. Ask him to play a Bb scale through his entire range. You may be surprised.

BTW, I am not familiar with your tubas; but a pedal Bb on a Bb tuba should not be hard.

The tubas are both decent instruments and are not the source to the problem
..Unless they're in crappy shape...

[Rick Denney]

Rick,
A BBb tuba has no "slotting" for an open Eb, shouldn't he be looking for D ? (Just logically)
Everything down there can eventually be played almost regardless of fingering, if you work and work for it, but why ?

Rick, re read this guy's first post. He seems to know about low register. He's just not familiar with compensation.

You had already answered the issue of the valve swindle. I was answering the question about so-called false tones.

Maybe your tubas are different, but all my Bb tubas (all of them) play the open alternate resonance on the low Eb. If I sag them down to a D, they don't play as well or at all. But I can play a pretty solid D using the second valve.

I would say that one of the big mistakes I see from high-schoolers, no matter what instrument, is that they try to extend range without having developed the fundamentals. They fall into the trap of using various shortcuts, which attain the pitches but not with good tone. Nick should explore range extension only in the context of excellent fundamentals, and that should be under the care of a teacher. If his teacher think playing pedals is the key to good tone, he'll be there to guide him. But I'm not sure playing pedals is the key to good tone--I know people who can play with good tone and don't worry about pedals, given that they do not appear the music they play. It's sorta like buzzing--some think it's a unique means to an end, others think it might do harm, and still others have some moderate combination of those views. They are all right in certain instances, which is why young players should have private lesson teachers rather than getting old-guy advice on Tubenet.

High schools already have enough people blasting at each other after band rehearsal to see who can play the highest, lowest, fastest, and loudest.

Rick "not peddling pedal tones, but rather peddling good tone" Denney

[tubagod94]

Man, you guys make a lot of really good points. That is one nice thing about my school, never blasting after practice always do Remington exercise to warm up and play pedals to "Cool Down"

[Lectron]

When you can make 'boring stuff', like Salvation Army's BTB sound exiting, your in to something
I've always played a lot of hyms to work on my sound and intonation, sometimes up an octave or two...