large small shank (baritone) mouthpieces?

[Bob Kolada]

What's a somewhat common, fairly large small (tenor trombone) shank mouthpiece that could work on a baritone? I am looking into getting a 4 valve American baritone, possibly to have a 5th valve added later on, and would like a larger mouthpiece both for comfort and low range. Bach 3's, no G, seem to be relatively common. There's another company whose name escapes me- they make a pretty wide range of mouthpieces in a bunch of shanks up to large bass trombone mouthpieces with a small shank. I believe they do have a website though it is rather minimal.
Bass trombone size is fine; I don't need or want a tenor tuba mouthpiece for this.
Regarding a low range bariphonium, it would probably be cheaper to buy a 321/2280 or a Jin Bao comper, but I want the front valves and lighter, brighter sound of the American horns. Unless someone has a front valve 2280.

Thanks!
Bob

[Lingon]

....There's another company whose name escapes me- they make a pretty wide range of mouthpieces in a bunch of shanks up to large bass trombone mouthpieces with a small shank...

Doug Elliot may be a great way to have a tailor made setup?

[Bob Kolada]

Possibly, but I'd like to avoid dropping 200 on a mp for a $800 horn.
The company I'm trying to remember makes one piece mps.

[Lingon]

Curry?

[Teubonium]

Unless someone has a front valve 2280.

Bob

King 2268. 4 front valves, upright bell.

[Bob Kolada]

Unless someone has a front valve 2280.
Bob

King 2268. 4 front valves, upright bell.

That's what I'm looking at! Something with a .590 bore and a 12" bell would be nice though. I really like those 2280's.

Curry?

Yes! Thank you. Anyone try one of his bigger/weirder mps?

[Doug Elliott]

Possibly, but I'd like to avoid dropping 200 on a mp for a $800 horn.

My mouthpieces like that are $180, not $200, and I don't understand the relationship between the horn cost and the potential mouthpiece cost. It's not like putting a 5th valve on that $800 horn.

[PMeuph]

My mouthpieces like that are $180, not $200,

....tomato tomäto

and I don't understand the relationship between the horn cost and the potential mouthpiece cost. It's not like putting a 5th valve on that $800 horn.

Inexpensive horn+Inexpensive Mouthpiece=Inexpensive Setup

Inexpensive horn+Expensive Mouthpiece=Expensive"ish" Setup


... sometimes people just want the least expensive available option.

[fsgazda]

Unless someone has a front valve 2280.

Bob

King 2268. 4 front valves, upright bell.

At baltimore Brass:

http://www.baltimorebrass.net/pic.php?id=767

[rodgeman]

There's another company whose name escapes me- they make a pretty wide range of mouthpieces in a bunch of shanks up to large bass trombone mouthpieces with a small shank. I believe they do have a website though it is rather minimal.
Bass trombone size is fine; I don't need or want a tenor tuba mouthpiece for this.

Thanks!
Bob

Are you thinking of Schilke?

http://www.wwbw.com/Schilke-Standard-Se ... 37364.wwbw

They also have large shank mouthpieces.

[MikeS]

A Wick Steven Mead SM4B (the "B" stands for baritone and means small shank) should work quite well. They are also pretty widely available. For example,

http://www.mouthpieceexpress.com/catalo ... s_id=15769" target="_blank" target="_blank

The Giddings and Webster Carbonaria has a slightly smaller diameter than the Wick but is deeper than pretty much any bass 'bone mouthpiece I'm familiar with. Ivan will make you one with a small shank.

http://www.king-cart.com/Giddingsandweb ... atch=exact" target="_blank" target="_blank

As mentioned above, Doug Elliott can certainly come up with a combination that will work for you.

[bbocaner]

G&W E-2 is a 2G-sized rim and is a little deeper than a bach 2g and is available in small stem. $136

[Bob Kolada]

No, it was Curry. I wonder what their rims are like?

[Rick Denney]

Steven Mean SM-4AY. It's an SM4 euphonium mouthpiece (biggish, but not as big as the 3 which is popular with tuba players; the SM6 is about the same as a Bach 6-1/2AL), but is specifically made for American baritones and the Yamaha 321, which use the same shank as a tenor trombone.

Rick "made by Denis Wick and a third of $180" Denney

[ghmerrill]

In my search for the "best" mouthpiece for my oval euph, the best I found is the SM3M -- which is a European "medium" shank required by that horn. I would actually prefer to stuff my Schilke 60 bass trombone mouthpiece in it, but it doesn't have a prayer of fitting, though it is interesting to experiment with it through the judicious use of duct tape. You can (if you really work at it) get a Schilke 60 with a smaller shank, but I'm not sure how "available" this is and what shanks you can get it in. The Schilke site itself doesn't seem to list it, but apparently they do produce it. Cost is around $120 so far as I can tell. You might also be able to turn down a standard Schilke 60 (B or 'bass trombone' shank), but I don't know how much material there is to work with there. Kanstul has recently done a couple of my PT mouthpieces for $45 each plus shipping, and pretty quickly. Otherwise, try an SM3 (several places will send you stuff on trial -- e.g., Custom Music is very good about that now) and maybe one or two of the other Wick mouthpieces. Or it may be reasonable to get the receiver changed.

I too am thinking of maybe getting a kind of "tenor tuba" at some point. So I think I won't throw more money into mouthpieces for the oval euph. The SM3M works fine for learning purposes.

[PMeuph]

You might also be able to turn down a standard Schilke 60 (B or 'bass trombone' shank), but I don't know how much material there is to work with there.

The only way this could work is if you cut the shank part of the mouthpiece. You then end up with a pretty weird mouthpiece. It then seems like the cup of the mouthpiece is sitting on the receiver of the horn. My former prof had this on his medium shank horn....

[Bob Kolada]

Thanks guys.

It's not going to be any smaller than a 3 and while custom, modular mp's are probably wonderful I'm rather confident something stock and simple will work well enough. I've played a 3G or SM3M in my Amati euph for over 15 years (even playing it in brass quintet and low trombone choir parts ) with no real problem so there shouldn't be any issue with a 3 rim. 1.5ish would be nice (I'd love a small shank version of my Yamaha 60B!) but I don't need it. I remember trying a 321 with a 6.5 and being rather surprised at the low C with that combination. Slightly smaller horn and much bigger mouthpiece should be ok.


Now to buy the mouthpiece. And the horn!

[mclaugh]

Inexpensive horn+Inexpensive Mouthpiece=Inexpensive Setup

Inexpensive horn+Expensive Mouthpiece=Expensive"ish" Setup


... sometimes people just want the least expensive available option.

Inexpensive horn+Inexpensive Mouthpiece+5th valve=Expensive setup.

But thanks for playing, loser.

[Bob Kolada]

Inexpensive horn+Inexpensive Mouthpiece=Inexpensive Setup
Inexpensive horn+Expensive Mouthpiece=Expensive"ish" Setup
... sometimes people just want the least expensive available option.

Inexpensive horn+Inexpensive Mouthpiece+5th valve=Expensive setup.
But thanks for playing, loser.

What the hell is wrong with you?

[Bob Kolada]

The bigger point is that such a large mpc may not match such a small instrument well.
Using a bass trombone-size piece on the small bore instrument may lead to tubby sound and/or intonation problems.
With my British baritone, I use a Bach 7-ish thing and a 12-ish piece on my bass trumpet.
On my 5050, I use either the included Demondrae mpc or an Alliance Mead 2A.
Not sure what I'd use on a Connstellation-sized horn. Haven't played one in 25 years.

Gotcha; I am looking into shallower cups though. I've had luck with too deep cups on various horns but I'd like to stay somewhere near the normal range with this. Bass trombone mouthpieces, and to a lesser extent contrabone, work just fine for me on regular euphs.
Hell, I need to play me another 4 valver first as the only one I played was a dog (not so well restored Connstellation, actually).