It's a long story, the short version of which is I'm making a practice mute for a 21J.
I've had some beginners luck (made in part by reading some interesting old threads from the archives here). The thing works pretty well. But it does make the horn play slightly sharp. Not uncontrollably, but I'd like to get it closer.
I've got a small vent hole in the top of the mute. My question is, would making that hole larger bring the pitch down?
(I understand it would also let out more volume. But I can live with that. I don't need this thing to get the volume down to where someone can sleep in the same room. I also understand that making the mute taller would bring down the pitch, but if I can avoid it I'd rather not have to spend the time making another top plate.)
Mute pitch question
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Rick F
- 5 valves
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Re: Mute pitch question
I would think adding a little more cork would lower the pitch. See this information by Ron Apperson:
http://www.banddirector.com/article/pg- ... tguide=307
http://www.banddirector.com/article/pg- ... tguide=307
Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ/RF mpc
YEP-641S (recently sold), DE mpc (102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank)
Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches:
"Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
YEP-641S (recently sold), DE mpc (102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank)
Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches:
"Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
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Michael Bush
- FAQ Czar
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Re: Mute pitch question
I guess I should have known that. Never used a mute and knew little about them until I started researching this one. (Still know little about them, obviously.) I've got a little one sitting here, on the off chance Huashen ever gets around to filling Al's order, but looking at that little thing isn't very illuminating.
More cork does help. Thanks!
More cork does help. Thanks!
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Michael Bush
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Re: Mute pitch question
Thank you for this, elephant. I got on more cork early this morning, and it made a difference, but not enough, and now the low register is no good. I'm going to make one of your tuning tubes, but not until Thursday evening probably. Got to get on the road and earn my keep. Thanks for the idea!
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Michael Bush
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Re: Mute pitch question
Since I'm on the road (as always?) I thought I'd post a bit of an update.
Elephant's suggestion is going to work, I believe. I tested it a bit last night, but didn't glue/tape/spray it all together in a permanent form.
Right now the mute is in several pieces. The cork I put on originally is off again. A first run at new corks is assembled. I have bought more aluminum flashing for a tuning tube and thrown it all together for a test run. The result of that is that I've been able to get the pitch down way too low (which is why I'm pretty sure it's going to work, since it was too high before, and it seems obvious how to move it back up again).
I hope to be able to take pictures and put the thing in final form on Sunday night. I'll post the results, good, bad, or indifferent.
Elephant's suggestion is going to work, I believe. I tested it a bit last night, but didn't glue/tape/spray it all together in a permanent form.
Right now the mute is in several pieces. The cork I put on originally is off again. A first run at new corks is assembled. I have bought more aluminum flashing for a tuning tube and thrown it all together for a test run. The result of that is that I've been able to get the pitch down way too low (which is why I'm pretty sure it's going to work, since it was too high before, and it seems obvious how to move it back up again).
I hope to be able to take pictures and put the thing in final form on Sunday night. I'll post the results, good, bad, or indifferent.
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Michael Bush
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Re: Mute pitch question
I seriously did as Wade says, and experimented like crazy. I ended up with what my daughter calls a "ginormous" mute. However, it plays reasonably well in tune (some quirky, wobbly notes, especially in the lower middle range). Solves the problem, though.
This is an interesting project, but I'm not much of a scientist. It was interesting to me that some small changes would make a huge difference in the intonation, and then other changes that seemed big (like adding length to the bottom) have to be huge to make any noticeable difference at all. (Additional length on the bottom helps a lot with low register response, though. That's why the finished mute is so tall.)
It's made of 20" aluminum flashing, aluminum foil tape, and 1/4" birch plywood (on the top). Where there are seams, they are filled with Gorilla Glue, not so much to hold it together (which is mainly done with the tape) but because it foams and I figured it would reduce any tendency of the aluminum to rattle.
The cork is HO gauge model railroad track bedding. I left openings in the cork rings for no good reason (just because the bass trombone practice mute I have sitting here has such a gap.)
This whole project came about because apparently my 21J makes the whole house resonate. I have no neighbors within a mile on three sides, but there are a few out on the road a hundred and fifty yards away. My kids came home telling me they could hear me playing all the way out on the road! No one had complained, but I didn't figure they wanted to hear me practice.
This is an interesting project, but I'm not much of a scientist. It was interesting to me that some small changes would make a huge difference in the intonation, and then other changes that seemed big (like adding length to the bottom) have to be huge to make any noticeable difference at all. (Additional length on the bottom helps a lot with low register response, though. That's why the finished mute is so tall.)
It's made of 20" aluminum flashing, aluminum foil tape, and 1/4" birch plywood (on the top). Where there are seams, they are filled with Gorilla Glue, not so much to hold it together (which is mainly done with the tape) but because it foams and I figured it would reduce any tendency of the aluminum to rattle.
The cork is HO gauge model railroad track bedding. I left openings in the cork rings for no good reason (just because the bass trombone practice mute I have sitting here has such a gap.)
This whole project came about because apparently my 21J makes the whole house resonate. I have no neighbors within a mile on three sides, but there are a few out on the road a hundred and fifty yards away. My kids came home telling me they could hear me playing all the way out on the road! No one had complained, but I didn't figure they wanted to hear me practice.
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imperialbari
- 6 valves
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- Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:47 am
Re: Mute pitch question
I am not so sure about the combination of a vent hole in the top plate and a gap in the cork. That may contribute to the wobbliness. I would experiment with a closing of the cork gap.
As I remember some old reading Mr. Crown of Crown mutes worked with Mr. Kleinhammer to create one of the first metal straight mutes for bass trombone, where the notes right over the open pedal are very critical.
To stabilize the structural strength of the somewhat vulnerable opening of the mute Mr. folded back the metal on the inside to create a rim somewhat similar to the one found on bell edges. However the low C wouldn’t speak until the edge was left unfolded. Its being fairly sharp made the mute work much better.
I am experimenting with making a practice mute for my Conn 40K sousaphone. I used soft foam used as packing material for electronic devices to seal the mute. This hardly can be cut sufficiently thin without disintegrating, so I will see if I can get some of the cork told of.
Klaus
As I remember some old reading Mr. Crown of Crown mutes worked with Mr. Kleinhammer to create one of the first metal straight mutes for bass trombone, where the notes right over the open pedal are very critical.
To stabilize the structural strength of the somewhat vulnerable opening of the mute Mr. folded back the metal on the inside to create a rim somewhat similar to the one found on bell edges. However the low C wouldn’t speak until the edge was left unfolded. Its being fairly sharp made the mute work much better.
I am experimenting with making a practice mute for my Conn 40K sousaphone. I used soft foam used as packing material for electronic devices to seal the mute. This hardly can be cut sufficiently thin without disintegrating, so I will see if I can get some of the cork told of.
Klaus
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Bob Kolada
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Re: Mute pitch question
Awesome!!talleyrand wrote:This whole project came about because apparently my 21J makes the whole house resonate. I have no neighbors within a mile on three sides, but there are a few out on the road a hundred and fifty yards away. My kids came home telling me they could hear me playing all the way out on the road! No one had complained, but I didn't figure they wanted to hear me practice.
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Michael Bush
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Re: Mute pitch question
Klaus,imperialbari wrote:I am not so sure about the combination of a vent hole in the top plate and a gap in the cork. That may contribute to the wobbliness. I would experiment with a closing of the cork gap.
Klaus
It would be marginally easier to close the hole in the top (with tape, for an experiment, before doing something more permanent) rather than filling the gap in the cork. If I were at home I would just try it rather than asking you, but since I'm not, I wonder if you think it makes any difference which hole I fill?