Need information on a Ponora Tuba

[Dustytuba]

I just purchased a satin silver Ponora tuba, it has a 16.5 inch bell, is 44 inches tall. The only markings on the tuba are the Ponora name and a what I believe to be a part number on the tube where the mouthpieces inserts. It is a Bb with beautiful full mellow tone. It appears to be of German design like a Miraphone. It has four rotary valves that are engraved. I have checked the tuba with an electronic tuner and it is very close to dead on note for note from top to bottom. The only thing I have come up with on the internet is that Ponora is a town in the Ukraine. The horn is of a very heavy design, not thin, like the St. Petersburg tubas, this one is built like a tank. This one will outlive all of us.

I would appreciate any information on this tuba. You can email me directly at foreverhisx2@windstream.net" target="_blank. Thank you in advance for your time.

Blessings,
Ken

[Ben]

I've never heard of this brand of tuba, but I'd love to see some pics of the engravings and the overall design!

Best of luck in your search. The cool thing is you like the sound and the way it plays

[Dan Schultz]

+1 on the "Sonora."

Me too!

[TheHatTuba]

+1 on the "Sonora."

Me too!

Me 3. Does it look like the CC one I have for sale (see my signature for pics link)?

[Tundratubast]

Yep,
I'm with you all, as a 4th, on the +1 for Sonora

[imperialbari]

If the OP’s tuba has flanges shaped the same way as the thumb ring flange on TheHatTuba’s Sonora

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=47051

then it certainly is made by B&S (sorry, I couldn’t really tell the shape of the flanges in bloke’s sample).

Klaus

[Ben]

+1 re: above
Palmface!

[Dustytuba]

Thank you for all your help. bloke hit the nail on the head as always. The P sure looks like a P and not an S but after a 6 pack or 2 of dark German beer the P magically turns into an S!

Ok, so we know it is a Sonora tuba that is made by B&S. Please tell me more about B&S. Any idea on the age of the tuba? And is the B&S factory still in operation? And its location.

We know the tuba was property of the last owner for 7 years, before that it lived at a Church and they got the tuba from the symphony in town. I am guessing for the amount of tarnish it is at least 20 years old.

Again, thanks for all the replies.

Blessings,
Ken

[imperialbari]

I have written quite a bit on B&S as a GDR historical/political/economical phenomenon, which represents a blatant clash between a tradition of independent instruments’ craftsmen in a highly organized grid of specialized production with mutual sub-contracting and then a brutal system basically set up to sustain the luxurious life of the nomenclatura.

You may search the main forum and possibly the For Sale and eBay sub-fora using criteria like

GDR

conglomerate

Warsaw pact countries

Devisenbeschaffung

Klaus

[imperialbari]

Fair as in Scarborough Fair?

[imperialbari]

[sloan]

SmallHungryHippo.jpg

[Rick Denney]

Back to topic. B&S is a major brand, and now the company name for a group of brands all made in Markneukirchen, Germany. At the time the Sonora was made (probably in the 70's or early 80's), B&S was an East German company that was part of VEB Vogtländischen Musikinstrumentenfabrik or something like that. Just call it VMI. After German unification, B&S/VMI was acquired by TA Musik, which was a holding company owned by Triumph-Adler that also owned Meinl-Weston in Geretstried, (formerly) West Germany. TA Musik, under the leadership of Gerhard Meinl (son of Anton Meinl who ran Meinl-Weston), bought itself out of Triumph-Adler and became JA Musik, which has bought and sold several other brands. At present, they have consolidated their factory in Markneukirchen, where they make Meinl-Weston (Melton), B&S, VMI, and several other brands of tubas. They are definitely a top-selling and top-quality manufacturer. Gerhard Meinl still runs the company.

The old tall-bell B&S (or whatever stencil brand) rotary tuba was one of the great tubas of that type made, in my opinion. The East Germans labored under an impossible system, but they often rose above it (as they did in the optics and photography world). The Sonora is really a sleeper because the stencil brand is a little obscure now and the B&S connection is not obvious. If it's in good repair it should play very well indeed.

Rick "play it and enjoy it" Denney

[imperialbari]

VMI is a post-1991 construction.

Klaus

[Rick Denney]

VMI is a post-1991 construction.

Klaus

' sounds just about right...I remember them (a 4/4 four-rotor BBb and a similar CC with .748" bore) being hawked at a huge University of Kentucky shindig by a known-to-many south Texas tuba seller right about that time.

Yes, and I played one of those early ones--a benefit of living in San Antonio at that time. Vespro was their house brand for the same tuba and I owned one of those for a while. Quite a good tuba except for a stinker 5th partial.

So, Klaus, what was the name of the company before unification? Maybe it was VEB B&S, but I did not think so.

Rick "surprised he remembered the German spelling correctly" Denney

[imperialbari]

Yes, VEB B&S was one of at least two Markneukirchen/Klingenthal based GDR conglomerates. The other one often seen in brass engravings is Musima.

B&S had a GDR predecessor named after the state of Sachsen. B&S mostly sold its instruments under the B&S brand for the top line and under Weltklang for the second line. At least some of the master craftsmen forced into the conglomerate worked under their own names, which also were used for marketing purposes. Scherzer and Wolfram trumpets plus Hoyer horns are the most obvious samples. Schneider was a name used when marketing was a bit fishy like with the Alexander 103 copies sold by Boosey & Hawkes after the British piston horns became obsolete. B&H didn’t make rotary valves themselves, so even the trombone valves for the first generation Sovereign trombones came out of Markneukirchen.

One of my Hoyer horns is engraved B&S to cheat on the sole importer of Hoyer horns in Denmark, so the scheme could be turned, whenever it could add to the incoming flow of Western currencies. Only it did not land well with Danish horn players, who didn’t want a B&S horn, be it ever so good with a remarkable intonation. For the benefit of the guy buying it at a big discount. Me.

I have wondered about MW apparently moving to Markneukirchen. There used to be a big gap in wages between old-West Germany and old-GDR. Im am not sure that gap is fully gone yet. But the main reason maybe is found by a look at Google Earth, which reveals the original MW site having very few, rather none, chances to expand in a cramped industrial area in Geretsried. It is funny to see MW getting its piston valves from Markneukirchen, as the GDR-era piston valves were horribly bad. But then it was MW’s investment which brought the necessary equipment to Markneukirchen.

Klaus