1960's Besson Silver Model 181 3 + 1 Compensating Euphonium

[SouthsideBrass]

1960's Besson Silver Model 181 3 + 1 Compensating Euphonium w/Case & Mouthpiece selling for a friend. He is the ORIGINAL OWNER and has the book from Besson from when he ordered it in 1965. Silver is 99% with only slight wear in few small places. This horn comes with original case and mouthpiece. Serial number is 320059. Valves move freely and all slides are free. There are a few dings so please review pictures. None of the dings effect playability. This horn would be good for players of any level although would be too much horn for a beginner!! It is a sweet horn. THIS IS A NO RESERVE AUCTION!

Bell 11 inches
Length 26 inches
Medium European mouthpiece shank

BUYER PAYS ALL SHIPPING $150.00
Local pickup available.
Will be packed and mailed professionally by UPS Store in Colonial Heights, VA.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/280839639117?ss ... 1555.l2649" target="_blank

The pictures on Ebay cannot express how nice this horn is. Was in his attic for past 20 years (with its twin that I am keeping) and it is in very good/excellent condition. Can mail more pictures if someone wants.

Doug Black, Sr.
Old Fart Tuba Player

[pgym]

There are a few dings so please review pictures. None of the dings effect playability.

The dings may not but the major DENT in the lower compensating loop between the first and second valves sure as hell does!

[MackBrass]

There are a few dings so please review pictures. None of the dings effect playability.

The dings may not but the major DENT in the lower compensating loop between the first and second valves sure as hell does!

I have played and tested this horn, the dent on the compensating loop does not effect the playing. This is a very good horn.

[SouthsideBrass]

There are a few dings so please review pictures. None of the dings effect playability.

The dings may not but the major DENT in the lower compensating loop between the first and second valves sure as hell does!

Would you like me to post video playing? It does not effect playing at all. Glad you can make assumptions without playing the horn.

[mclaugh]

There are a few dings so please review pictures. None of the dings effect playability.

The dings may not but the major DENT in the lower compensating loop between the first and second valves sure as hell does!

Would you like me to post video playing? It does not effect playing at all. Glad you can make assumptions without playing the horn.

It may not affect playing enought for YOU to notice, but the constriction in the bore at the site of the dent CAN and DOES affect the resistance of the air column through the loop and the path of the standing wave through the horn, both of which affect slotting and intonation.

That's physics 101. If you think it doesn't affect the playability, you're fooling yourself.

[MackBrass]

It may not affect playing enought for YOU to notice, but the constriction in the bore at the site of the dent CAN and DOES affect the resistance of the air column through the loop and the path of the standing wave through the horn, both of which affect slotting and intonation.

That's physics 101. If you think it doesn't affect the playability, you're fooling yourself.

Well, be that as it may, since the seller and I have played the horn and we both feel very qualified to evaluate it, the final analysis is that this dent does not effect the playing, intonation, air-flow, slotting, or response. Whom ever buys this horn will have a great vintage Besson at a great price, in fantastic shape. Although you have not played this horn and you are not an interested buyer, you are more than welcome to dispute the evaluation of the seller as well as my evaluation all you want as I am sure that whom ever does buy it will be very happy.

Just for the record, I have no vested interest in this horn, nor am I to make any money on the sale of the horn. Also, the seller of this horn is doing this for the original owner, who, bought the horn new, as a favor, for free, to help him out. There is nothing for either the seller or myslelf to gain with this instrument in saying that the dent on the compensating loop does not effect the way it plays, which is true as it does not effect it what so ever.

[mclaugh]

Does this dent impact how this euph plays? (Negatively? Positively?)

Hard to tell unless you played it before AND after the dent happened.

The sister euph it not this euph. Each horn has its own personality, etc.

The only way to learn if removing this dent would improve how the euph plays is to have it removed.

EXACTLY.

The fact that this horn is playable, or even that it plays well, with the dent DOES NOT mean the dent does not affect playability.

Claiming that a sizable dent in a valve knuckle does not affect playing, intonation, air-flow, slotting, or response is like claiming that misaligned valves don't affect them either. It's nonsense, pure and simple.

[MackBrass]

Does this dent impact how this euph plays? (Negatively? Positively?)

Hard to tell unless you played it before AND after the dent happened.

The sister euph it not this euph. Each horn has its own personality, etc.

The only way to learn if removing this dent would improve how the euph plays is to have it removed.

EXACTLY.

The fact that this horn is playable, or even that it plays well, with the dent DOES NOT mean the dent does not affect playability.

Claiming that a sizable dent in a valve knuckle does not affect playing, intonation, air-flow, slotting, or response is like claiming that misaligned valves don't affect them either. It's nonsense, pure and simple.

Whatever....

First of all, I am not claiming that "a sizable dent in a valve knuckle does not affect playing, intonation, air-flow, slotting, or response". In most cases this is very true, but this is not the case. We are not talking about other, or most horns, this topic is on this horn.

If you want to continue to dispute that this horn has a problem, then contact the seller and set something up so you can evaluate how much this horn is really suffering and what its real value is.