Fat Vs Fit?

[Peach]

Clearly the usual route through life for most tuba players is to gradually gain weight (manliness?) whilst becoming less and less active...
But what about folks who've lost a lot of weight and got themselves fit?
How did that change your tuba playing, if at all?

Does size (and fitness) matter?

Would guys auditioning spend some of their days getting in shape to give them that 2% edge?

MP

[jamsav]

cardio vascular fitness makes everything easier ! Breath support , posture ...concentration !
you dont want to be playing any gig with back pain or any other ailment that could possibly detract - stay fit, eat right ...indigestion and Prok 5 dont work !
Here comes the tuba tuba solo in American In Paris- burp....

[Trevor Bjorklund]

Believe it or not, boxing. The cardio part of the workout is ridiculous and helps me get the most air possible from my medium-sized lungs. Boxing is also heavily based in rhythm - I often use rhythmic excerpts to design punching combinations. And finally, it builds a lot of upper and lower body strength and stamina that makes lifting and carting around heavy instruments less odious. Confidence. I found it to be great for my trombone playing and similarly great for tuba - relaxed power.

A typical workout (2-3 times a week):
- Jog 2-3 miles
- 3 (3 minute) rounds of jump-rope, continuing through the between-round pauses
- Stretching
- 2-3 rounds of shadow boxing/footwork
- 3-5 rounds of heavy bag work
- 3 rounds pad work
- Focus ball or speed bag
- Pushups+sit-ups+ some kind of awful other thing, like duck-walks/bear crawls, etc.
- Stretching

Although I don't do nearly as much sparring anymore, when I do it involves a mouthguard and headgear - I have never suffered any problems getting popped in the mouth yet (which is always the first concern when I talk to brass players!).

Results: I can drink as much beer as I want with my post-gig hamburger, I have lots and lots of air, and practicing seems like a reward after a hard workout.

[adsteve]

Having been on both sides of the spectrum, I can honestly say that tuba playing and everything else is easier when fit. I used to weigh 350 pounds and it made playing quite difficult. It was hard for me to sit longer than a half hour at a time because my posture was terrible and I had lower back problems. I also had issues holding the horn because my gut was too large to properly hold it, which added to the back pain. As far as playing, this was around the time I was learning excerpts and I remember not being able to make the phrases. There were times I had to breathe twice as much as my teacher.

Years later, I am around 220-230 pounds. As far as how I got there, I dabbled in a lot of different things. I went through periods where I'd run a lot, lift weights a lot, play hockey and I even competed in a strongman competition! I no longer have any issues with my posture and how I hold the horn. I still like to get up and move around during my practice sessions, but it is not because of pain. Finally, my lung capacity has become an asset, I now find myself being able to make phrases some people cannot. I can definitely fill up my horn and play fuller than I've ever been able to.

[opus37]

I think Fit is the key word. Cardeo work outs help my breath support and thus my playing. I indoor row, lift weights and do kettle bells. The weight loss for me by managing how much I eat and watching salt intake.

[cambrook]

I didn't set out to loose weight, I just wanted to maximise my chances of living longer.
I realised that I was then almost 50 with children 5 & 8, and if I kept on being lazy and making excuses I was going to increase the odds of a premature health issue. So I took up cycling. I haven't changed anything else, I still sometimes eat more than I should if the food is good, and still have more than the "recommended" amount of alcohol (especially if it's a good bottle).

I've dropped about 13kg over the last year and got fitter at the same time. While that's not a huge amount to loose, I agree with previous comments that fitter is better for tuba playing. It has helped (but not revolutionised) my playing.

We don't loose weight from our lungs, usually it's mainly the belly. If I put 30lbs back on it wouldn't help my breathing

[Rick Denney]

Clearly the usual route through life for most tuba players is to gradually gain weight (manliness?) whilst becoming less and less active...
But what about folks who've lost a lot of weight and got themselves fit?
How did that change your tuba playing, if at all?

My tuba playing got worse. I was spending 15 hours a week training (in addition to my usual work which required a lot of travel) and not practicing.

There is a level of fitness that people strive for as part of being healthy and happy. But there is a point where fitness becomes an end unto itself, and then it competes with other hobbies like playing the tuba.

Rick "who played a lot more and improved a lot after completing an Ironman Triathlon in 2000" Denney

[jscottmsn]

Not to mention body fat is in impediment to full chest expansion. Talk to us who work in healthcare and have to interpret those obese chest xrays as "inconclusive due to poor inspiratory ability and penetration due to body habitus"

[PaulTkachenko]

I always figured that bigger guys would have bigger rib cages and could therefore expand their lungs that bit more.

[fairweathertuba]

Moderately good physical fitness is probably the best. The studies show that people who exercise too much have no extra longevity and may possibly die younger than those who exercise moderately. Moderate exercise with good eating habits will definitely be beneficial to most people, for me a low carbohydrate diet works great, lost 20 lbs last year with only moderate exercise.

I learned my lesson the hard way though, I was on a mission as a 48 year old to get super fit again, I was weight lifting; overdid it & got a hernia! Ouch that was an expensive and painful lesson. Younger people are of course less likely to have problems while exercising vigorously, after the injury I read a lot about health exercise and nutrition and came to my own conclusions. Doctors will recommend the most ridiculous high carb diet something like the USDA food pyramid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_guide_pyramid. If you want to become overweight, have heart disease and other problems this is the diet for you!

A lower carb higher fat diet has been consistently shown to help people lose weight, lower their chance of heart disease, improve overall health. Gary Taubes has written books explaining the science of a healthy diet, so has Atkins, although many including the Mayo Clinic absolutely get it wrong, there is no evidence whatsoever that a low carbohydrate diet will cause harm to any bodily organs. It's crazy that everywhere you look you see low fat this (cookies bread or whatever) or low fat that and we've been brainwashed by bad science and influence of the food industry who likes to sell pre-packaged high carbohydrate foods to the public.

So anyway, sorry about the rant. Just read up and decide for yourself, just my 2cents.

[Michael Grant]

The following is a true story.

Arnold Jacobs commented once to an overweight trombonist and friend of mine that if he lost weight he would improve his lung capacity. He went to say that he (AJ) had lost 50 lbs and had increased his lung capacity by 1 full liter. He explained that fat not only grows out, it also grows in, meaning for every inch of fat we add to our outer waist, there is also an inch of fat that is growing "inwards". That fat tissue pushed the internal organs in and up. The lungs, being a soft tissue, are compressed and pushed up, thus decreasing the amount of air (their expansion/flexibility) they can take in. My friend at the master class was already a big guy (tall and wide) which gave him a larger lung capacity to begin with. Without testing, Mr. Jacobs guessed he probably had a good 6 liter lung capacity. The additional weight he carried was decreasing that capacity. That 20 minutes or so with Jake at that master class was all it took for him to change his diet, start exercising and loose that extra weight.

As for size, I also learned in that week of master classes from Mr. Jacobs that lungs can also be very long. I am 6 foot tall and fairly slender. I have around a 5 liter lung capacity. Someone that is my height and similar build but with a longer torso would have a larger lung capacity. We would look pretty much the same but that longer torso would make quite a difference.

[Peach]

I always figured that bigger guys would have bigger rib cages and could therefore expand their lungs that bit more.

Hey Paul,
I suppose quite a lot of bigger guys seem to be bigger-framed in general but doesn't fat basically sit outside the ribcage? Seems to me that would inhibit flexibility as someone already mentioned.

You'll obviously have seen Oren Marshall playing (breathing)? That guy has to be one of the most efficient 'breathers' out there. Also does a lot of yoga & fitness work I think. Hmm...

Didn't Alan Baer recently trim-up considerably?
Wonder how that's working out for him.

I'm sure folks are right that if you're excercising a LOT you have to be giving up other stuff like tuba practice. If you want to be the best tuba player possible most of your time should probably be spent playing tuba, but could aspiring young players or even old-timers do more good spending an hour on CV every couple of days than spending that time practising? Depends how much other practice they're doing I suppose.

Interesting replies.
MP

[Chadtuba]

Many people who regularly see themselves on TV tend to lose weight.

I've said it before in other threads: Don't waste your time taping yourself with audio only !
Until you see yourself on video, you'll be unlikely to think of yourself as in need of shaping up.
I also think you can identify musical problems on video much faster/better then any other way.

I video myself on a regular basis for my conducting lessons. I knew I was in poor shape, but that has helped me to get things moving; that and my toddler that I want to be around for. With the early spring here in ND I've been able to get out and do some walking and plan to start loading my bike into the pick-up and parking on the far side of campus for the extra exercise.

[PaulTkachenko]

Certainly true that fat is not the same as 'big'.

I keep pretty fit, but still notice that after a 3 hour Balkan gig on helicon or a street parade on sousa, my lungs seem to be giving my ribcage a good old pushing from the inside.

I assume that if I had a bigger ribcage, I'd have a bigger lung capacity.

I guess we can all use our full lung capacity unless we're really unfit or overweight. Stamina, on the other hand will certainly be affected by fitness.

[bort]

Conversely, "small" people are not necessarily in good shape either. I see "thin" people walking up stairs all the time who are winded when they get to the top.

[Tubajug]

Conversely, "small" people are not necessarily in good shape either. I see "thin" people walking up stairs all the time who are winded when they get to the top.

I am certainly one of those people! I'm about 5' 11" and only 130ish pounds, but I'm still not in the best shape I could be. It doesn't help that I had asthma as a kid and it seems to be coming back...I can't run very long/far without getting short of breath.

I was also curious about how you can measure your lung capacity? I'd be interested to see what mine is. I assume there's some sort of device you blow into?

[PMeuph]

I was also curious about how you can measure your lung capacity? I'd be interested to see what mine is. I assume there's some sort of device you blow into?

A doctor could help you, or you could get one of these:

http://www.windsongpress.com/breathing% ... oldyne.htm" target="_blank

[Donn]

Of course, people have to take time to cook that way.

If you ask me, any dietary theory that comes to that, will work OK for many people. Vegetarian, carnivore, raw food, paleolithic, whatever. Make it from simple raw ingredients, and your instinctive sense of good healthy food will start to sort things out, but pre-prepped and most restaurant food is gimmicked and at multiple levels you really don't know what you're eating.

Though that doesn't entirely solve the problem of too much input for too little output.

[Donn]

Though that doesn't entirely solve the problem of too much input for too little output.

I never heard of any diet or lifestyle that advocated gluttony. Well... not any good one anyway.

How about a lifestyle that advocates sloth? There are two ends to the input/output equation. That lifestyle would be one where a person spends the bulk of the their time immobilized in, on or in front of some device like a motor vehicle, TV, iPad. It would be one where neighborhoods have no sidewalks because there is no apparent point in walking anywhere. I don't know if it's a good one, but it's a lifestyle you may have heard of. It doesn't take much gluttony to get ahead of the calorie requirements, if you're on the sloth program.

It may not be as simple as total inputs minus outputs, summed over a 24 hour day, though. I suspect certain activity patterns set up a metabolic level that's disproportionate to their immediate caloric requirements, and if you just run the numbers on calories, workouts and weight loss, they don't need to add up.

Don't listen to me, I probably have only about a dozen fat cells and have never gained any significant amount of weight since I reached full height. That has among other things saved me from the knee and back injuries that my male relatives all suffered from - that and of course, sloth.

[Rick Denney]

If everyone ate reasonably lean meats, fresh vegetables, limited starchy vegetables, and NO enriched flour (yeast-free diet is best), everyone would feel better, look better, be more fit, have more energy, and live longer.

The fact is, people have been eating yeast-risen bread as a staple for thousands of years. And the sugar content of, say, Coca-Cola of 75 years ago vastly exceeds what most people drink today (especially given that most people drink diet sodas if they are even remotely concerned about their weight).

The difference isn't what we eat nearly so much as what we do (or don't do). I could eat anything when I was training 15 hours a week for the Ironman Triathlon, and my weight would stay in the 195-205 range no matter what (205 after I moved to Virginia and started riding and running in hillier terrain which built more muscle). I no longer train for endurance sports, and I eight about 235 now. But I eat the same stuff now that I ate in 1993, when I peaked at 280.

Teens are fatter now because they spend more time in front of the TV and the computer and less time out of the house engaging in sports or other exercise-intense activities. We're all scared to let our kids ride up and down the street on their bikes, or let them climb trees, or explore a nearby drainage ditch, or ride their bikes two miles away to the ball field to play Little League--stuff even city kids were allowed to do 40 years ago. Now, a few get driven to play soccer but most of the rest non-jocks are at home playing World of Warcraft or whatever. Or looking at dorn on the Internet. Yes, they don't eat as well as we used to, but they would be a lot less fat if they moved themselves around a bit.

Rick "a non-jock" Denney