Bubbie one step further

[J.c. Sherman]

I'll never understand the ire against the ophicleide; it's like people feel threatened.

I don't see much of a difference betwixt the pictured antique and a modern bass tuba.

There are late ophicleides from the same period as some of our coveted Yorks.

The tuba only "supplanted" the ophicleide as there wasn't anything else in the orchestra to play it's part. It's not the same instrument. We do have a minor issue with the lack of development of the ophicleide paralleling the more common brass, but it's at a similar development stage as the upper strings.

Meistersinger on ophicleide is ludicrous; the composer did - and is allowed to - change his mind. And the ophicleide he originally considered was Berlioz's recommended Ab instrument, which didn't really exist in quantity. But he showed a clear preference for the tuba, which we honor. A BAT may be just as ludicrous.

Verdi had a clear bias against the tuba. He prefered the ophicleide or the contrabass trombone/modern cimbasso, and approved its use for his earlier works. We didn't honor that request in any quantity 20 years ago; now there are many manufacturers making instruments to meet the demand for the instrument, or the contemprary variants in different keys. Berioz did little revision in favor of the tuba; he always held the ophicleide in his voicing, and he had the choice.

So why the ophicleide trepidation when major orchestras and conductors are realizing its unique voice, and it's wholly different timbre from the tuba? We're at the same level of use as the cimbasso several decades ago. The archaic is returning, not to give an "old fashioned" idea back (not in the modern orchestra, I hope) but to hear the works fresh.

Again, we use tuba because there wasn't anything to play the part, and something convenient though not similar was chosen. That's happening less frequently, much like the cimbasso. Will it become as popular? Not likely, since it's not as ready an adaptation for a modern brass player as a cimbasso. But, who knows? But I've heard wonderful recordings with that "new" voice that makes the music make more sense from a balance and orchestration sense. And I’ve had the privilege of using the instrument in major works and it’s been something really wonderful for me.

Yeah, I've used a tuba or euph for an ophicleide part. Sometimes, that's what the conductor wants, and some are indeed afraid of the instrument. But I've played with surprised musicians who didn't imagine the efficacy of the instrument. So... stop being afraid. Some of us are going to play it. Someone trying to be "right" has it wrong, IMHO. Someone trying to capture something missing or something new apart from their Telarc recording - that's cool.

J.c.S.

[PMeuph]

Ok then, so let's compare some bad ophicleide playing to some great tuba playing....




.....

[J.c. Sherman]

It’s hard to jibe pejoratives such as “awfulcleide,” “toy,” and “blah, blah, blah” with “no interest”. I never said “fear”, but trepidation of being supplanted in a gig by another musician or having to deny a request to perform on the instrument could be a threatening position to be in. I was speculating, as I can’t understand the drive to malign.

But, since sincere efforts at persuasion are resulting in very obviously closed ears, I’ll simply continue to use it when hired to do so, and we’ll see where the art takes us.

By the way, bloke – cool photoshop – may I borrow it? That’s one of the few contrabass ophicleides, perhaps put to good use!

[J.c. Sherman]

I'd be much more interested in a modern take on the serpent: brass, better intonation than the old models, maybe sax-type keys . . . . sweet.

You just described an ophicleide Like a bassoon, if you make it a rational system, it stops sounding like itself and becomes something new.

[Lingon]

A small clip for for those that feel the ophicleide as a threat in everyday life and thinks that it is impossible to play in a useful way etc etc...

[MartyNeilan]

A small clip for for those that feel the ophicleide as a threat in everyday life and thinks that it is impossible to play in a useful way etc etc...

While what he did was nothing short of amazing on that instrument, I don't necessarily think it would satisfy on an undergrad bass trombone jury. Ignore the gymnastics (and the piano) and listen to the sound itself, particularly in the low register.
Yes, they are an interesting novelty. No, they honestly do not sound that good.
Sorry!

[imperialbari]

OK, but not nearly as musical and as even a sound as in the takes that Nick Byrne made available on his site some years ago (they weren’t there last I looked).

In one take Nick Byrne played duet with a euphonium. The blend was excellent and revealed that the ophicleide basically sounds like a lean euphonium.

Klaus

[PMeuph]

While what he did was nothing short of amazing on that instrument, I don't necessarily think it would satisfy on an undergrad bass trombone jury. Ignore the gymnastics (and the piano) and listen to the sound itself, particularly in the low register.
Yes, they are an interesting novelty. No, they honestly do not sound that good.
Sorry!

The player is a French Horn and Trumpet player and has played both within the Orchestra Nationale de France.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Guerrier" target="_blank

I truly wonder how much time he has spent on the ophicleide and on his low range.

(If that is not the most unlikely brass triple ever (Horn, Trumpet Ophicleide)) I don't know what is!)

[J.c. Sherman]

Cogent argument, Bloke. And that is true - they do rather disappear. Some liked that. Most, especially now, prefer the tuba's unique and separate voice. No disagreement there. I like tuba too.

Training to play one, well, that onus would be ill justified by tax dollars; also true. I paid the prices to learn, and it took a damn long time for the earnings to outweigh the direct expenses... but the rewards were every bit as grand as golf is to some


J.c.S.

[PMeuph]

a bunch of random thoughts on this all jammed into one unorganized paragraph:

I see the reason that composers/orchestrators stopped writing for this (the "monumental development of machine manufacturing - and thus 'the brass instrument valve' " aside) is the same reason that tenor tubas/euphoniums/baritone horns (pick your favorite name) aren't often used in symphony orchestras: They sound too much like French horns, yet lack the potential intensity that the French horn can offer. Recorders ("blockflutes") sound too much like flutes and offer an extremely limited range of volume and sonority. Recorders are not used in modern orchestras. As to modern-day inclusion of throwback instruments in new works, there are probably currently less than fifty (more...?? fewer...??) people in the world that can really play these bass keyed bugles with true artistic competency. Moreover, the acquisition of these by universities (rather than paving roads, repairing bridges, and paying state troopers) is a great way to burn state sales and property tax revenues and (as they are toyed with by musicologists) sustains their undeserved reputation as wretched instruments. "Money", though (in the case of privately-funded professional symphony orchestras), has always affected orchestration. Composers might (??) love to be able to (as did Mahler on some monumental works) include everything-and-the-kitchen-sink, but extra folks back there (who, in this particular case, mostly would contribute a mezzo blendy sound) cost dough.

For those same reasons of money, wouldn't it make sense then, that Jinbao makes ophicleides that could be sold for individuals so they can muck around and do whatever they want using their own money (given the low cost) rather than buy a Robb Stewart replica for 25k using your money? That amount of money is too much money for an individual and the only other institutions that could fund it are museums and universities.

I would debate as too why the euphonium is not used in orchestras but I'll spare that rant for another day. I'm in partial agreement with you on that....

[J.c. Sherman]

With bated breath I await this future Jinbao offering.

You know you want one... even if for a lamp or theatrical prop

J.c.S.

[PaulTkachenko]

I just want one because they look cool ...

[PaulTkachenko]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-ANTIQUE- ... 4844e246bc" target="_blank

This one just looks like it's going to cost a lot. To buy and to sort out, let alone restore!