Unsticking stuck-stuck-stuck slides

[MartyNeilan]

I purchased an old Lyon & Healy tuba off da bay a little while back. This instrument was nearly wall hanger status but I have been repairing and rebuilding it into a nice playing little horn (pics up soon). The next major obstacle is the stuck slides. Is is obvious where prior attempts to loosen the slides failed, to the point of cracking braces and loosening solder joints.
I have lightly run a torch over the tubes while tugging with a wet cloth, and that did not seem to budge even the shortest slides. There don't appear to be any dents in the slide tubes. Brute force obviously failed in the past, and moderate force combined with low heat failed on my attempts. What next - crank up the heat or any better ideas?

[mcfolks]

Been there...
I used a heat gun, and get all sides gradually warmed up- sides, tops and bottoms....Use a towel or folded over tee shirt to run in to the radius area to give you a good grip- wouldn't hurt to have 2 people- one to hold the horn and heat source, and one to tug. My two helicons were silver, so I didn't worry about the finish- worked on all 4 stuck slides! Good luck

[ghmerrill]

Have you tried getting some PB Blaster into the joints (preferably from each end)? Repeated application and the use of some heat (hairdryer or heat gun) may be necessary to allow the liquid to actually get into the joint. I don't know if this is used by instrument repair techs (though I think I've seen Kroil used in this way), but I've been amazed at how effective PB Blaster is. Don't even begin to think it's like WD-40 or Liquid Wrench. Really different stuff. Not actually a penetrating "oil", but a catalyst.

[Gilligan]

I've used Deep Creep from the automotive store and a cross of 50/50 valve oil and lighter fluid at different times.

[PMeuph]

I have used some undiluted concentrated green cleaner* to get slides unstuck from some of the POS horns I have bought on eBay. (I made a lamp with one)
Basically, I put the horn on its bell in the sun, just poured some cleaner on all the slides, repeated 30 min later, and then I pulled using a rope in a vice. When they got stuck I used some oil to help lubricate it.

* It was a store brand, but I think its suppose to be similar to the concentrated simple green.

[MikeW]

There have been previous threads on this topic.

Try an advanced-search for:

"How do professional repairmen remove stuck slides ?"
"Liberate the Alternates"

Edit:
Got some links to work --

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29755
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39894

[MartyNeilan]

I am going to try and get some Aerokroil from Ace Hardware tomorrow and see if that does the trick, combined with alternately torching and spraying with ice water.


(just rehearsed Brahms Requiem on BART. would have liked to have tried it on the little tuba if it was ready)

[Dan Schultz]

I am going to try and get some Aerokroil from Ace Hardware tomorrow and see if that does the trick, combined with alternately torching and spraying with ice water. ...

The 'Corrosion Cracker' from Ferrees is the 'right stuff'. I don't know what it is but it smells like crap!

It's often possible to twist a slide a bit to break them loose. If you can generate any axial movement at all... the slide will move out. There's a very good change that only one tube is stuck. Worst case.... unsolder the crook and reattach it to only the stuck tube and give it a bit of a twist.

[MikeW]

In the "In praise of the 24AW" thread, Bloke mentioned that you can solder an unwanted mouthpiece into the end of a badly stuck slide, then jam the mouthpiece in a vice and use it to gently twist the stuck slide, to free it. Of course, given Bloke's stated opinion of the 24AW, this may be a "hundred and second use for a dead cat" kind of post: but to me it seems to make sense.

Also, I read somewhere a suggestion that you could run hot water through the slide to heat up both the inner and the outer tubes, then quickly run cold water through: This would briefly leave the outer tube hot (and hence expanded) while cooling the inner tube (and so contracting it), which might be enough to let you twist them apart.

I haven't seen any mention of vibration as a technique: for instance you could solder a piece of scrap to the end of the male slide, and engrave something on it or punch a series of marks on it with one of those sprung center-punch gadgets: this should set up some powerful vibrations which might shake something loose.

Would a trip through an ultrasonic bath do any good ?

[MikeW]

There have been previous threads on this topic.
...

Edit:
Got some links to work --

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29755
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39894

[ghmerrill]

If you find yourself needing to get much more physical with this, another suggestion I've seen that involves the unsoldering of the crook is to then solder a large steel drift punch into it (I have several of these for heavy-duty use on things like tractors and machinery). These have a large square or hex cross section on the "handle" end, probably about 3/4" diameter, and you can get a wrench on this and apply serious torque. (In addition, if you don't have several of these already, you should -- very handy.)

If I were to try the "hot and cold" trick (which merits some consideration), I'd think about using dry ice to cool the inner slide. But after a while you realize you're throwing immense amounts of money at the project just to get a slide unstuck .

[MartyNeilan]

But after a while you realize you're throwing immense amounts of money at the project just to get a slide unstuck .

Bingo.

So far, I have done this project for less than the cost of a high-end mouthpiece, and I would like to keep it that way.

[ScottM]

I would try the Corrosion cracker. I have had good luck with it. It does help to put it on repeatedly and put some heat on the outer slide to help draw the liquid down the slide
ScottM

[vlatuba]

The final solution I've used cost nothing but time and fuel and always works without scarring the instrumen (besides the total removal of the lacquer that is) or risking bending pipes or anything else:

remove the stuck slides from the tuba completely, so you have only the inner and outer slides. Wipe off all the remaining solder. Heat the two slides until just turning red (no meltdowns!) then plunge into a bucket of water. Assuming the sticking is not caused by dents, it should pull apart easily.

I've only done this as a last ditch effort, when all else has failed. It is labor intensive but it will work.

Ed

[iiipopes]

With heating a slide up, especially if using a torch, there is risk, unless you are purposefully dismantling the slide completely, of pulling everything apart that you don't want to.

I don't like any pressure to pull slides, because warpage can and does occur. I've seen the "belt rash" on too many slide bows.

Whether it be an instrument slide, a rusted mason jar lid, or anything else, what I do, and what all my techs do, is to heat the outer slide a bit at a time, gently tap it with a rawhide mallet, and repeat as necessary until the slide lets go.

If you heat the outside tube slightly, it will expand microscopically before by conduction the inner slide is heated and also expands to match, defeating the purpose.

[MartyNeilan]

I am going to try and get some Aerokroil from Ace Hardware tomorrow and see if that does the trick, combined with alternately torching and spraying with ice water.

They didn't have and couldn't order Aerokroil, so I picked up some pungent PBBlaster. I may not get to try it until this weekend.

[J.c. Sherman]

Ferree's sells some stuff called "Corrosion Cracker" (or something pretty close to that) for unstickifying stuck slides. It works surprisingly well for the very thing you're doing. It's probably some other product rebottled. Exactly what, I've never investigated...

Great stuff - use this, and a hell of a lot of patience. Let the penetrant do the work, then apply heat and gentle coercion. Remember, brass is soft

[duderubble]

I don't have much new to add, but +1 to a couple of things already here. I just got a 1920s euphonium with all four slides and the mouthpiece stuck but good. I sprayed with liquid wrench, let sit, tapped with something, put something wood in the crook that matched the radius (short piece of broom handle on the one and three valve slides) tapped firmly but not wildly on that, the shock of a tap is more effective than continuous pressure, then used a heat gun to heat only the outer slide (as much as that is possible), tapped again, sprayed more liquid wrench, let it sit, used the heat gun again, only on the outer portion, tapped, once they move a fraction with a tap you can pull them out. Worked eventually on all four and the mouthpiece. Of course YMMV

[Dan Schultz]

I have to add a final note here....

My profession is repairing music instruments. I've NEVER had a stuck slide that I couldn't fix. However... sometimes the 'fix' involved taking things apart rather than wrenching around on them until something gets wrecked. If you can't get a slide out with reasonable hand force.... take it to someone who does this for a living.

I've repaired LOTS of damage done by folks who mean well but just weren't educated in this sort of thing. Stick with what you ordinarily do for a living and swap your dollars for 'getting things done right'.

I'm not being mean here. .... just trying to be realistic. Having repairs done by a pro is often the cheapest way out.

[duderubble]

I do substance abuse education for a living. I'd be more than willing to talk to you about the evils of alcohol in exchange for some dent repair on that euphonium.