Identical Tubas? JinBao JBCB-450, M&M CC5/4 and Schiller CC5

[bort]

I'd still rather pay more money for a tuba that has been through a proper R&D cycle than to pay less money and be a guinea pig. I appreciate the hard work done by (most) dealers to assure a quality product, and I believe that there are a lot more good (or better) tubas coming out of this. What I don't appreciate the number of crappy horns that get sent out of the factories, hoping that people will just buy them and not notice or complain.

Are tubas covered under lemon laws? Are dealers legally responsible for the quality of the instruments they sell to any extent beyond what they put in writing or "guarantee"?

[tubamlb]

You are correct we do not belong in this site,

We will let you guys that make a living repairing old brass rotted out instruments , and selling mouth pieces from Asia talk nonsense to each other hiding under alias names

We and other dealers will concentrate on bringing affordable value to the market

Thank you

M&M

[PMeuph]

......... and selling mouth pieces[sic(k)] from Asia..........

Actually if there's one thing that doesn't come from Asia and almost doesn't stand of chance (for the the moment it's quality mouthpieces. All the Asian mouthpieces I've tried have been unbalanced, imprecise, and generally sub-par.

There are more than enough quality mouthpieces being made in the USA, that doesn't seem to be going away soon...

[Steve Inman]

You are correct we do not belong in this site,

We will let you guys that make a living repairing old brass rotted out instruments , and selling mouth pieces from Asia talk nonsense to each other hiding under alias names

We and other dealers will concentrate on bringing affordable value to the market

Thank you

M&M

I believe you misunderstood the post. Providing your services on TubeNet is fine. There are multiple sub-sites available. The earlier suggestion was to transfer the discussion to the appropriate sub-site. It was not intended to be insulting (as I understood it.) However, posting an insulting reply here can't be an optimal business strategy, if I may make such an humble observation ....

Regards,

[Lingon]

Now this is funny. I just pointed out for forum memeber Ulli that one model of tuba seems to be available in a store near from him. Then the show began, again...

As discussed before there is a problem with not everyone being able to comment in the sponsors forum. Or, why is it a problem with sponsors commenting in this forum, as long as it is on, or at least near, on topic?

Most of the trouble I can see is the unpleasant unpoliteness against each other as soon as horns from a particular part of the world are discussed...

So, everyone including the sponsors of course, keep up the good work.
Remember, it's all about the music!

[PMeuph]

As discussed before there is a problem with not everyone being able to comment in the sponsors forum. Or, why is it a problem with sponsors commenting in this forum, as long as it is on, or at least near, on topic?

The problem is not with sponsors commenting, it is with them throwing in their sales pitch (filled with Bull S**t) instead of actually contributing. What did M&M post? Just a plain and simple ad, without answering any of the questions at hand on the instrument. Also, he seemed quite misleading on the whole process of taxes and import duties.

It might be near topic (nearer than some of my own posts) but it seems quite opportunistic.

Not everyone being able to comment in the sponsors section is great. The sponsors post are like ads, there is no need for discussions of ads. Just like there is no need for ads in the discussion of products.

Lastly, nothing stops him(tubamlb) from using the private message function if he has something to say that is a sales pitch....

[Lingon]

Well, for those that not want to read the comments from the Tubenet's sponsors they do not like, there is, as DP pointed out earlier, the Foes list. However, even if the sponsors are a bit 'overhelpfully' in promoting their own stuff it has at least something to do with the instruments. I think the Asian women dating services, 'Piercing & Jewelry online shop' et al, which I can not put on the Foes list, is much more offending?! Wife did ask very seriously what the #&"¤/** I was looking at when I browsed the Tubenet. I prefer the TN ordinary sponsors then.

...The problem is not with sponsors commenting, it is with them throwing in their sales pitch (filled with Bull S**t) instead of actually contributing. What did M&M post? Just a plain and simple ad, without answering any of the questions at hand on the instrument. Also, he seemed quite misleading on the whole process of taxes and import duties...

Yes, that is not good at all. But it might be a good thing that the sponsors show their seriousness, or lack thereof, here on TN before some optimistic tubenetter is going to do business? Then a new interested buyer will have a chance to make their own decision based partly on that, or not.

...It might be near topic...

At least about the instruments but...

...Not everyone being able to comment in the sponsors section is great. The sponsors post are like ads, there is no need for discussions of ads. Just like there is no need for ads in the discussion of products...

Different perspectives. But if you want to discuss their products with other interested tubenetters, what are the alternatives? If doing all through PMs then I think a lot of the idea with the community is lost, or?. And why this only when Asian horns,or Chinese, for that sake, are discussed?

...Lastly, nothing stops him(tubamlb) from using the private message function if he has something to say that is a sales pitch....

Of course not, but as I wrote earlier, some statements from the sponsors here at the forum may or may not make it easier for a potential buyer to decide whom to do business with...


Dear DP,

...Don't play dumb, you took a year-old thread and brought it back to life, when a PM to "Ulli" would have helped HIM...

I did a Google search for the 450 CC tuba and one of the hits was this thread. OK, a PM would have helped Ulli and no one else. Maybe Ulli is the only person on this board that is interested in this model? Maybe, maybe not. I thought this was a friendly helpful community as I think you stated earlier in another thread?! And I bet if I had hinted about a store with a specific model Mira, Alex, Nishrl or something else just brought in stock then it had been fine? And why comment if not for continuing, as you accused me of, the 'trolling'?

I wrote "Remember, it's all about the music!" which I meant and if you dared to glare through the 'Fanfare for the Furture' clip I linked, , you would have seen some huge nice shiny tubas played by kids that in this situation looked almost like the player with the BBB discussed in another thread, and heard a great performance from that school band. At least I was impressed and became glad when I heard it but of course feelings are different from person to person so... However the clip on my link is with and about those that hopefully will continue playing when we are no more and had at least something to do with tuba playing, I think, even if not exactly with the tuba model that this thread is about? How do you define that with your excellent clip? Or have I misinterpreted something here?

FWIW, if I had know about the Tubenet before I did one of my instrument purchases I would have made another decision about that one...

...send your kids off to go dancing with the "musician"...

[Lingon]

As said, it's all about the music. Enjoy a couple of Asian girls not dating but playing:

[PMeuph]

Well, for those that not want to read the comments from the Tubenet's sponsors they do not like, there is, as DP pointed out earlier, the Foes list. However, even if the sponsors are a bit 'overhelpfully' in promoting their own stuff it has at least something to do with the instruments. I think the Asian women dating services, 'Piercing & Jewelry online shop' et al, which I can not put on the Foes list, is much more offending?! Wife did ask very seriously what the #&"¤/** I was looking at when I browsed the Tubenet. I prefer the TN ordinary sponsors then.

This has been discussed, if it really offends your wife, you can use ad-blocking software, or enable a hosts file...

And why this only when Asian horns,or Chinese, for that sake, are discussed?

Please tell me, how many other instrument retailers are currently on this site? Doesn't the problem lie in the fact that this board is primarily a community for discussion, as you yourself mentioned, and not a product directed to get sales. Advertising is a necessary evil in order to fund this site, but to me it has to be contained. They get banner space, the ability to post in the sponsors section, the ability to sell their products in the for sal/ ebay categories. Not in the other categories... Makes sense, right? The board is primarily for discussion, not advertising.

I did a Google search for the 450 CC tuba and one of the hits was this thread. OK, a PM would have helped Ulli and no one else. Maybe Ulli is the only person on this board that is interested in this model? Maybe, maybe not. I thought this was a friendly helpful community as I think you stated earlier in another thread?! And I bet if I had hinted about a store with a specific model Mira, Alex, Nishrl or something else just brought in stock then it had been fine? And why comment if not for continuing, as you accused me of, the 'trolling'?

The thread was a year old, therefore you are a troll (intentionally of not).

[Lingon]

...The thread was a year old, therefore you are a troll (intentionally of not)...

Sorry PM, but if awakening an old thread is trolling, irrespective of new facts (I found the CC450 at musicstore now, a year ago it was not there), my comment is and there are other. But why just pointing out me or this one? For example the seven year old one about the low Db on C tubas, even if wife added as new fact.

I was not aware of the term TROLL but after checking out wiki I now know.
Best advice seems to be "Do not feed the trolls".

[elihellsten]

Yep, bump! Do they play in tune, or do you have to cut slides and stuff (like Neptune)? I'm looking for a rather large CC tuba with a fair price on it...

Neptune/Jonathan: The Jinbao bass trombone plays very nice and I'm very happy with it! Thanks for a nice deal //Eli, Sweden

Lingon: Kul med lite fler svenskar. Yrkesmusiker dessutom!

[k001k47]

You never, ever see any other instrument makers or sellers poking into threads to post ads. Never. I wonder why that is? It is the sellers of these Chinese tubas who do this. Only. Ever. I wonder why that is, too?

Wow! That really *IS* a valid point! I wonder why no one here bothered to counter it.

Are you fishing for arguments, the elephant?

[Lectron]

Yep, bump! Do they play in tune, or do you have to cut slides and stuff (like Neptune)? I'm looking for a rather large CC tuba with a fair price on it...

Neptune/Jonathan: The Jinbao bass trombone plays very nice and I'm very happy with it! Thanks for a nice deal //Eli, Sweden

^^ This..Anyone?

Oh...And bump (or is it necroing?)

[Lectron]

As per the question , What has been done to the CC 5/4 M&M Tubas that we have brought to market

As what changes ? Bell, Tube size fit, and other small but inportent changes

We continue to make changes as our cliental asks and as we M&M come up with improvements to make this and are other products a great value

The standard 450 that we sell to dealers will not have these changes at this time

If you need a CC 5/4 They are well worth the investment

Thank you

M&M

This tuba has never been modified ,and does this one not good enough?

[Wyvern]

Yep, bump! Do they play in tune, or do you have to cut slides and stuff (like Neptune)? I'm looking for a rather large CC tuba with a fair price on it...

Eli, The JBCB-450 I had the slides cut to make play in tune is still available and you can have for 2000 GBP if you would like? In modified form it is a quite nice playing large CC at unbeatable price.

This tuba has never been modified ,and does this one not good enough?

That agrees with what JinBao have told me too

[MackBrass]

Yep, bump! Do they play in tune, or do you have to cut slides and stuff (like Neptune)? I'm looking for a rather large CC tuba with a fair price on it...

Eli, The JBCB-450 I had the slides cut to make play in tune is still available and you can have for 2000 GBP if you would like? In modified form it is a quite nice playing large CC at unbeatable price.

This tuba has never been modified ,and does this one not good enough?

That agrees with what JinBao have told me too

I decided not to carry this horn for several reasons;

Intonation was an issue, maybe now that Jonathan cut the slide its a better horn that the factory can make changes to.

Low register, I think it sucks. When looking for a larger horn I want more out of the low register and this does not meet or come close to my standards.

Sound, it just did noithing for me, this could have been due to having to adjust to the stuffy low register of adjusting to the intonation.

Jonathan, if you could get someone to demo the horn on YouTube that may help to see what the modification you have made really imrpove the hron. Also, if you could do a write up on the harmonic seriers and let us know what the tuner says for each not that would be great.

As to what MM does, what special changes do you have the factory make to differ you model from others. When I have a modification done its very simple. Case in point, the 200 model BBb, I have the factory make the main tuning slide longer as the horn was a little on the high side for a few of my customers. The next modification I am having them to to the same model is lower the leadpipe as this is a little to high. These are true modifications.

[Lectron]

I decided not to carry this horn for several reasons;

Intonation was an issue, maybe now that Jonathan cut the slide its a better horn that the factory can make changes to.

Low register, I think it sucks. When looking for a larger horn I want more out of the low register and this does not meet or come close to my standards.

Sound, it just did noithing for me, this could have been due to having to adjust to the stuffy low register of adjusting to the intonation.

Jonathan, if you could get someone to demo the horn on YouTube that may help to see what the modification you have made really imrpove the hron. Also, if you could do a write up on the harmonic seriers and let us know what the tuner says for each not that would be great.

As to what MM does, what special changes do you have the factory make to differ you model from others. When I have a modification done its very simple. Case in point, the 200 model BBb, I have the factory make the main tuning slide longer as the horn was a little on the high side for a few of my customers. The next modification I am having them to to the same model is lower the leadpipe as this is a little to high. These are true modifications.

Hmmmm....too bad...

I'm in the marked for a good CC with a full strong low register.
Thor is not an option ATM, but I guess I need to start putting some coins aside

[elihellsten]

Thanks for the answer, mctuba1!

[Wyvern]

I have just put up demonstration video on YouTube playing the Wessex modified JBCB-450 for a simple chromatic scale from middle C down three octaves. I made no attempt to lip into tune, or pull slide, so you judge for yourself if the tuning is manageable.

http://youtu.be/CcqCnjvSTIM

Note the depth of tone is actually a lot better than reflected by the video which was just done using my iPhone with some sympathetic vibrations from other instruments in the room.

I must disagree with Tom in that I think the low register is quite usable - although I say that as someone used to playing compensated tubas.

[Lectron]

I have just put up demonstration video on YouTube playing the Wessex modified JBCB-450 for a simple chromatic scale from middle C down three octaves. I made no attempt to lip into tune, or pull slide, so you judge for yourself if the tuning is manageable.

http://youtu.be/CcqCnjvSTIM

Note the depth of tone is actually a lot better than reflected by the video which was just done using my iPhone with some sympathetic vibrations from other instruments in the room.

I must disagree with Tom in that I think the low register is quite usable - although I say that as someone used to playing compensated tubas.

So did (does) the Cory Band