looking to upgrade - need advice
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looking to upgrade - need advice
Hi All,
I've started playing the tuba again after a 25yr hiatus. I bought a beat-up Conn 10J to start playing again. It went well and I'd like to upgrade to a moderately priced 4 valve tuba since the Conn seems to play sharp in the lower registers. Does anyone have any suggestions? Maybe a Cerveny or a Chinese tuba? Used and dented is OK. Thanks,
-Yemag
I've started playing the tuba again after a 25yr hiatus. I bought a beat-up Conn 10J to start playing again. It went well and I'd like to upgrade to a moderately priced 4 valve tuba since the Conn seems to play sharp in the lower registers. Does anyone have any suggestions? Maybe a Cerveny or a Chinese tuba? Used and dented is OK. Thanks,
-Yemag
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Re: looking to upgrade - need advice
WARNING, HIGHLY OPINIONATE MATERIAL AHEAD!
The best all around BBb tuba you can put your hands on is the Mirafone 186-4U. If you want something with a bigger sound, a 191.
Good luck!
The best all around BBb tuba you can put your hands on is the Mirafone 186-4U. If you want something with a bigger sound, a 191.
Good luck!
Tony Clements
https://www.symphonysanjose.org/perform ... s/?REF=MTM
https://www.symphonysanjose.org/perform ... s/?REF=MTM
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Re: looking to upgrade - need advice
Any idea on your price range? That'll change a lot of answers.
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Re: looking to upgrade - need advice
My price range is $2K to $4K. More like $2K.
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Re: looking to upgrade - need advice
Cool. Can you suggest a distributor? I heard that buying direct from China is risky.
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Re: looking to upgrade - need advice
In addition to the Miraphone 186 BBb, you have the VMI 103 BBb and Meinl-Weston 25 BBb tubas. You really can't go wrong with these as they are solidly built tubas that play well with good pitch, response and sound. I like the VMI and M-W better sound-wise than the Miraphone, but they are all very good and are in more-or-less the same 'class'.
These tubas run roughly in the $2,500 - $3,500 range, used.
If you like pistons, the King 2341 BBb is a great choice. Usually $3,000 - $5,000 used.
The St. Pete BBb and Cerveny 681 BBb are decent tubas for a bit cheaper, but not quite as well-made and consistent as the above models. Usually around $2,000 - $3,000 used.
All tubas listed above are 4/4 size, 4-valve BBb tubas.
I don't really have any experience with the Chinese tubas so I will let the others comment on them.
These tubas run roughly in the $2,500 - $3,500 range, used.
If you like pistons, the King 2341 BBb is a great choice. Usually $3,000 - $5,000 used.
The St. Pete BBb and Cerveny 681 BBb are decent tubas for a bit cheaper, but not quite as well-made and consistent as the above models. Usually around $2,000 - $3,000 used.
All tubas listed above are 4/4 size, 4-valve BBb tubas.
I don't really have any experience with the Chinese tubas so I will let the others comment on them.
Last edited by toobagrowl on Sat May 26, 2012 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: looking to upgrade - need advice
Dillon Music has a Conn 5J (4-valve version of the 10J essentially) and a King 2341 with both an upright and a recording bell. Both tubas are between $2,000-3,000.
http://www.dillonmusic.com/c-1013-tubas.aspx" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
Dan Schultz also has a King 1241 with a recording bell for $1850 on his website.
http://thevillagetinker.com/horns_for_sale.htm" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
http://www.dillonmusic.com/c-1013-tubas.aspx" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
Dan Schultz also has a King 1241 with a recording bell for $1850 on his website.
http://thevillagetinker.com/horns_for_sale.htm" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
Jordan
King 2341 with a Holton "Monster" Eb bell
Eb Frankentuba
Martin Medium Eb Helicon
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving's probably not for you.
King 2341 with a Holton "Monster" Eb bell
Eb Frankentuba
Martin Medium Eb Helicon
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving's probably not for you.
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Re: looking to upgrade - need advice
Thanks guys!
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Re: looking to upgrade - need advice
I like those VMI's, dislike 186's and 25's, and prefer the King as an overall Bb. Best "4/4 Bb" out there.
- bisontuba
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Re: looking to upgrade - need advice
Hi-yemag wrote:Cool. Can you suggest a distributor? I heard that buying direct from China is risky.
Check out MACK Brass -- a sponsor of Tubenet--- http://www.mackbrass.com" target="_blank
Mark
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Re: looking to upgrade - need advice
I'm not an advocate of buying new horns... unless you are convinced that this will be the very last tuba you purchase. There's just too darned much depreciation. Someone mentioned in another thread that a tuba cannot be considered as an investment in terms of gaining value. I think I would have to dispute that statement. Of course... I'm greatly biased because my forte is making old horns playable again.
The newest tuba I own is a Miraphone 1291 5V. It's about eight years old and came to me in great shape despite a few repairs. Granted... one of these even used is still probably out of your budget. However... I think I can be pretty much assured that if I decide to sell mine a few years from now, I won't take much of a loss on it.
If I was seeking a tuba for all-around playing I would zero in on a good used King 1241 or 2341. Don't discount the earlier horns with a detachable bell. I think they are better that the new style Kings. Next in line would be a Miraphone 186, Meinl 20, or Meinl 25. The Meinl 20 and 25 are the same horn except the 25 has a slightly larger bottom bow and bell. The valve section parts are the same. With any of the horns I've mentioned... you can rest assured that any severe damage can probably be repaired without breaking the bank.
The newest tuba I own is a Miraphone 1291 5V. It's about eight years old and came to me in great shape despite a few repairs. Granted... one of these even used is still probably out of your budget. However... I think I can be pretty much assured that if I decide to sell mine a few years from now, I won't take much of a loss on it.
If I was seeking a tuba for all-around playing I would zero in on a good used King 1241 or 2341. Don't discount the earlier horns with a detachable bell. I think they are better that the new style Kings. Next in line would be a Miraphone 186, Meinl 20, or Meinl 25. The Meinl 20 and 25 are the same horn except the 25 has a slightly larger bottom bow and bell. The valve section parts are the same. With any of the horns I've mentioned... you can rest assured that any severe damage can probably be repaired without breaking the bank.
Dan Schultz
"The Village Tinker"
http://www.thevillagetinker.com" target="_blank
Current 'stable'... Rudolf Meinl 5/4, Marzan (by Willson) euph, King 2341, Alphorn, and other strange stuff.
"The Village Tinker"
http://www.thevillagetinker.com" target="_blank
Current 'stable'... Rudolf Meinl 5/4, Marzan (by Willson) euph, King 2341, Alphorn, and other strange stuff.
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Re: looking to upgrade - need advice
Where are you located? I would suggest going someplace you can play test the horns.yemag wrote:Cool. Can you suggest a distributor? I heard that buying direct from China is risky.
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Re: looking to upgrade - need advice
I live in San Francisco
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Re: looking to upgrade - need advice
Keep an eye out for used B&S stencils... I like mine more than a 186, and it was under $1500. Very versatile BBb, especially if you like German horns. Names on the bell may include Sonora, Karl Zeiss, and a couple others I'm forgetting.
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Re: looking to upgrade - need advice
+1. I forgot about those horns. In fact... I have a B & S/VMI 101 stencil in the shop right now waiting on some minor dent removal. I'm sure the seller will put it up for sale as soon as I have it ready.Levaix wrote:Keep an eye out for used B&S stencils... I like mine more than a 186, and it was under $1500. Very versatile BBb, especially if you like German horns. Names on the bell may include Sonora, Karl Zeiss, and a couple others I'm forgetting.
Dan Schultz
"The Village Tinker"
http://www.thevillagetinker.com" target="_blank
Current 'stable'... Rudolf Meinl 5/4, Marzan (by Willson) euph, King 2341, Alphorn, and other strange stuff.
"The Village Tinker"
http://www.thevillagetinker.com" target="_blank
Current 'stable'... Rudolf Meinl 5/4, Marzan (by Willson) euph, King 2341, Alphorn, and other strange stuff.
- TheHatTuba
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Re: looking to upgrade - need advice
another +1, I had a chance to compare my old Sonora/B&S CC to a Mirafone 186 4U CC. Similar intonation, and a slightly broader/darker sound than the mira at a fraction of the cost.TubaTinker wrote:+1. I forgot about those horns. In fact... I have a B & S/VMI 101 stencil in the shop right now waiting on some minor dent removal. I'm sure the seller will put it up for sale as soon as I have it ready.Levaix wrote:Keep an eye out for used B&S stencils... I like mine more than a 186, and it was under $1500. Very versatile BBb, especially if you like German horns. Names on the bell may include Sonora, Karl Zeiss, and a couple others I'm forgetting.
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Re: looking to upgrade - need advice
Haha, that's fortuitous! When I wrote that post I had actually checked your website to see if you had any listed for sale.TubaTinker wrote:+1. I forgot about those horns. In fact... I have a B & S/VMI 101 stencil in the shop right now waiting on some minor dent removal. I'm sure the seller will put it up for sale as soon as I have it ready.Levaix wrote:Keep an eye out for used B&S stencils... I like mine more than a 186, and it was under $1500. Very versatile BBb, especially if you like German horns. Names on the bell may include Sonora, Karl Zeiss, and a couple others I'm forgetting.
OP should seriously consider this horn, as I'm assuming the price will be reasonable. Never regretted buying mine.
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Re: looking to upgrade - need advice
Add 'Musica', 'Gerhard Schneider', 'Carl Wunderlich' and even 'Giardinelli' to the stencils made by B&S/VMI.Levaix wrote:Keep an eye out for used B&S stencils... I like mine more than a 186, and it was under $1500. Very versatile BBb, especially if you like German horns. Names on the bell may include Sonora, Karl Zeiss, and a couple others I'm forgetting.
Dillon's has a VMI Giardinelli BBb tuba for under $2,000:
http://www.dillonmusic.com/p-17148-giar ... mi101.aspx" target="_blank
I didn't mention the stencils because they are harder to find, and a couple of them - 'Karl Zeiss' and 'Musica' are made by both B&S and Cerveny, so you really have to know which ones to look for.
The B&S 'Musica' BBb and CC tubas that I have tooted on were really fine tubas.
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Re: looking to upgrade - need advice
A student of mine just purchased an original HBS192 for seven grand.bloke wrote:For $2000, you can
- buy a Chinese copy of a Hirsbrunner 192
- pay for the shipping
- buy a really nice bag (or an MTS case, etc.) for it.
(They come with a styrofoam-board-cordura nylon-zipper closure case, which is semi-disposable.)
These tubas are very accessible, and offer very good intonation. Although the metal used in the linkage is a bit soft (about as soft as the metal used in Yamaha linkage), this is a well-built tuba.
Try it with my "Symphony" mouthpiece.
The horn is 35 years old and in spectacular condition and the valves are lighting fast and with tight solid linkage. It's in as good condition mechanically and cosmetically as when new.
I've examined the construction and engineering in many many China produced tubas.. even ones produced within the last year. While they've certainly improved they are still cutting important corners in ways that make them a poor use of your hard earned money unless you 100% don't care about keeping the tuba long term. NO current crop chinese horn will look as good as this HB in 35 years and more to the point.. this HB will still look and play like it does now in another 35 years.
Moral of the story, when it comes to puchasing a horn that you intend to keep for life, cry once.
Last edited by joh_tuba on Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: looking to upgrade - need advice
"I suppose if I live to be 200 I win a velocipede!!"
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