Das Rheingold

[eupher61]

Contrabass tuba, correct? Is any of it in the Torchinsky book? Mine is long gone, whether lost, stolen, or loaned I don't know. I think the Wagner was book 2, is that correct? I don't remember what is in the opera of significance in the tuba part. I remember a long pedal point--Eb???--at the beginning, or is it one of the later acts?

I just haven't looked at IMSLP yet. But, any hints will be appreciated.

steve

[Kory101]

Yes, it's a contrabass part.

There's a big solo in the 3rd act when Albrecht changes into a dragon.

The whole part is on IMSLP.

[eupher61]

I was in the car when I posted that, so I hadn't had the chance to get to IMSLP. Thanks for the heads up! This will be fun, I got the call from a local opera company. A pretty big endeavor, but based on their history they can pull it off.

[eupher61]

So, here comes the question that could cause "discussion" here. Which tuba for Rheingold?

The range is Db (5th leger below the staff) to G in the staff. My contra bass is fine that whole range, but let's face it: F allows much better breath control on the lower and soft parts, while the contra is probably needed for the loud bits such as the Entry to Valhalla, among others.

Keeping in mind that some of the bass tubas we have today, such as the PT series, might be quite similar in bore to the contra bass that Wagner knew, most likely capable of playing more loudly than the contras of the day. and at least MY range on my F is well capable of handling that whole range quite readily...

1) take both, use the F for the soft pedal point Eb at the start and similar places later, and use the BBb for the bulk of it.

2) use just the F

3) use just the BBb

I'm comfortable with any of these options. Obviously, 1) would be a PITA.

I also don't know what cuts are going to be made in the score, I'd bet there are several, but probably nothing that would cause an impact on my choice.

[Wyvern]

It was written for Kaiser tuba and requires BIG tuba tone. Play all on the BBb

[eupher61]

Actually, I'm finding out that maybe my choice WILL be affected by some cuts. It appears the pit will be smaller, in numbers and in area, than is typical for Wagner. I need to find out more from the company.

[J.c. Sherman]

The score indicates Bass Tuba, but Wagner selected his own preferred musician and instrument, who played a contrabass helicon. I almost never say this, but bring out the biggun'

J.c.S.

[PMeuph]

The score indicates Bass Tuba, but Wagner selected his own preferred musician and instrument, who played a contrabass helicon. I almost never say this, but bring out the biggun'

J.c.S.

*coughs* contrabass tuba.

[bobbob0100]

Will you have the 2 tenor tubas and 2 f tubas there as well (wagner tubas) or will they just be played on horns?

And will you have a contrabass trombone next to you?

If they are downsizing the pit to sub with horns and just a regular bass bone, you might want to consider how the F might fit in to the ensemble a little better.

[J.c. Sherman]

Hmm... back to my sources; I know it's published as such, but I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression Rheingold was originally a Bass Tuba part, different from the main trilogy. Other parts are also different (Bass trumpet only in Eb, Contrabass trombone only, etc.).

Definitely advocating big horn, though

J.c.S.

[eupher61]

It may take a while to find out what the pit will have. The guy who is the regular for the company says they usually scale thing back. I'm not sure how that works with Wagner....but the F is starting to make more sense. Yes, it's not traditional ,but I've also been told by a friend and competent player that he's seen it done on F with
a couple of major companies.

[eupher61]

So, it looks like I'll be using the F....the orchestra is 6 violins, 2 viola, 1 cello 1 bass 2 horns 1 trumpet 1 trombone. I'm not sure of the winds or percussion.

Wow. "Scaled back" is a little understated. The company has good reviews, this is their 18th year, so I'm sure it will work. I'll find out in 7 weeks or so.

thanks for the input.

[eupher61]

Books are in for Rheingold. Um...wow.

It's a re-orchestration from the Birmingham (UK) Opera. I haven't dug in enough to verify, but a very reliable source told me it has some truncated scenes--like the Rhein maidens and the giants--but beyond that I really am not certain.

But, the interesting feature....

A double with Bass Trumpet!

I was looking for a true Baritone, which will be .050 too big and the wrong direction, for other purposes, so I may just jump on that situation anyway. The conductor is likely not eager to pay me for the double, but the part is such that it's inner voices, and way too high for tuba no matter what. Methinks he'll simply have no choice.

Now, to start a Wagner marathon, possibly lasting 6 weeks! Where's my Anna Russell album?

[eupher61]

but with only a 20 piece pit anyway, I think the Martin would demolish everyone else...and, yeah, it does make the decision a bit easier.

[eupher61]

One rehearsal down (first 2 parts), and it's no contest.

The Martin wins the Reduced Rheindgold Bowl by a good distance.

I played the F through today's rehearsal, but it never really felt comfortable. Naturally, most of the pit is under the stage floor, and it's only about 8'. The F is just high enough that I felt like everything was blowing right back at me---which, given the structure of the floor above, it was. I took the Martin in after the rehearsal ended, played about 30 seconds, and the conductor popped his head into the pit and said "Yes".

I'm surprised, but I'm sure glad I have this Martin. Thanks, Andy (and Dan) for getting the word out and getting it into my hands!

[eupher61]

The pit has 11 strings, keyboard (organ), 1 bassoon, 2 clarinets, I think 1 oboe, 2 flutes, 2 horns, 1 tpt, 1 tbn, tuba, timp/percussion, and harp. Trumpet, tuba, oboe, at least 1 clarinet double. We haven't got to the anvils yet, that will be interesting.

[Ian1]

I played this reduction in Birmingham (UK) in 2004.

I worked with Jonathan Dove (the arranger this year) and am currently working on the World Premier of Stockhausen's Mittwoch aus Licht directed by Graham Vick...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/classicalmusicandopera" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

I remember the struggle doubling on Bass Trumpet well...

Small World!

Ian

[eupher61]

Ian, it is a lot of fun already! We are still finding numerous wrong notes etc...but it really is a wonderful adaptation. Very small world indeed!

[eupher61]

Oddly, it's not that loud in there. The timps (and anvils/cymbals/whatever else, 1 player only) are on the other side, with a doorway next to him, and the pit opening between us. I really don't hear the timps much.
BTW, only 1 flute (doubling picc), 1 clarinet (doubling bass cl) and 1 oboe, doubling english horn. At least 2 violins double viola, or vice versa, 2 distinct cello books.

Ian, that Stockhausen looks interesting. Are you the human cannonball? Wow!

[Ian1]

I remember the reduced Ring Cycle well... We have gone on to perform the full length operas for the past 4 years and are performing the entire Ring next year (3 times!). Amazing music. Glad you are enjoying it.

http://www.lfo.org.uk/" target="_blank

I started rehearsing the Stockhausen mid Wagner and It's the toughest thing I've done for years. Have travelled to Cologne to rehearse. I'll try to upload the part. 39 cues from memory all timed to the second with an electronic backing. It's in a suspended chair that is moved up and down whilst playing. I can't give too much away but It's a really exciting project.

All the best,

Ian