Wagner Tuba

[PMeuph]

I have been told by someone who worked in Germany for a time, that one of the legends there is that when Wagner invented the Wagner tuba, he had in mind the sound of the oval tenor tubas in the bands of the day.

However, he did not want any of those unmusical hack band players invading his precious orchestra, so he designed a similar instrument that could only be played by horn players.

The person who told me this then said, "Just think, if the low brass players of Wagner's day playing in the beer halls had just been just a little more musical in their approach, maybe the brass section for the Ring would have a section of 8 trombones with 4 doubling on tenor tuba, rather than 8 horns with 4 doubling on Wagner tuba."

If my memory is correct, part of those facts are related in the Baines book. Some of the first sketches to the Valhalla motif use the notation "soft trombone" in the margins.

[la_dee_da]

What got me on the Wagner Tube kick was watching this Solti recording on Youtube,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkOiKy6sXfM It struck me that a WT would be more flexible in other bands I play.
The primary band I perform with strives to sound more like Ernst Mosch although we usually field around 30. My blaskapel should only hope to be as tight as this polka. The section at 1:22 is the sound! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwBiQoSJCPE
The discussion here got me curious and found this clip that seems to be a really good primer on WTs and other instruments Wagner had made 3:43 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvA54D2G ... re=related

I think when the push comes to switch, I will have to go to the tenor horn rather than the Wagner Tube. But i hold out hope to be able to go back to my primary instrument the tuba, a VMI 3302.

[imperialbari]

To me Mosch and Wagner Tubas represent opposite sound tendencies. And I have played quite a bit of Mosch as first flugelhorn some twenty years ago. Much more recently I got my 5 valve Wagner Tuba in F.

Mosch even goes more mellow in his own band than in his editions, which largely follow standards for German folksy bands. A standard that will work with down to 2 Flugelhorns and a Tenorhorn on three-part settings of the melody, trombone on off-beats, tuba on bass line plus drums. And which also has parts for a full concert band including 3 important trumpet parts divided between doing counterpoint fanfares and joining the 3-part melody line.

Mosch used 3 flugelhorn parts and a whole bunch of Tenorhörner and Baritonen. But only one trumpet, which then was treated very much as a soloist in its counterpoints. And most often he only took 2 tenor trombones (and no horns) on tour even if his band was so big with doubled ovals and flugelhorns, that money didn’t appear like being a factor (Mosch was very popular and filled huge halls). I have seen TV reports from his recording sessions, where he would add trumpets and a bass trombone. For an Alp-related LP and tour he added 2 horns to emulate Alphorns. But in general he was out for a tightly blended fat sound with only the trumpet sticking out.

The Met horn section plays the WT’s at a very high level with great security and with great blend, but to me their sound is much more intense and rich in overtones than is the sound of the Mosch ovals.

Klaus

[GC]

Wagner Sousaphone:

[imperialbari]

We have to pull the killertie on people with no humour. Problem is humour takes a minimum of knowledge:

http://anotheroldmovieblog.blogspot.dk/

[J.c. Sherman]

While a good horn player could play Eb tenor parts on a Wagner Tuba (transposing as if on Bb horn from and Eb horn part) and get to keep their mouthpiece, these are not exactly known as responsive or dexterous instruments. It's a bad idea. I've played several, and they aren't exactly suited to playing anything besides tenuto.

For Kiltie et al, the Tuben, like the Bass Trumpet, was/were inspired by Adolph Saxes earlier instruments - the Tuben from the Saxhorns and the Bass Trumpet from the Saxotromba (and other spellings). Wagner eventually fell out of love with Sax, and had the Moritz firm build the instruments, with some changes.

I've held in my hands a Moritz WT which may have been from the first batch; it's early enough. It looks like and oval euph, with a narrower bell flare and a left facing bell (you read that right). The valves were operated by the left hand around the outside bow, as if someone converted an oval euph for a person who'd lost their right hand use. The leadpipe is missing, but the bore is indeed of horn proportions. I'm guessing this instrument wasn't very successful, as within 2 decades, other firms changed the design a LOT, especially with a different bore taper and flare.

I'll see if I can post a pic from home today.

So while these are inspired by the baritone and bass saxhorns, they are not suitable replacements, and sound very distinct from them, and perform wildly different from them.

J.c.S.

[J.c. Sherman]

Here's what Wagner Tuba (bass in F) v. 1.0 looked like:

Wagner Tuba Moritz-small.JPG

The leadpipe snaked to the left of this photo; the instrument actually made it's way to the Met... as a prop!

J.c.S.

(National Music Museum)