The reality of being an auditioning classical musician

The bulk of the musical talk
User avatar
Todd S. Malicoate
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 2378
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:12 pm
Location: Tulsa, OK

Re: The reality of being an auditioning classical musician

Post by Todd S. Malicoate »

Lingon wrote:
Todd S. Malicoate wrote:[...but dang...how much "better" can one guy play the snare drum part in Capriccio Espagnol than another?...
Make that Bolero by Ravel and I can assure you that even amongst the best there are differences.
I wouldn't doubt that there are differences. Of course there are. The question is, which one is the "best"?

Answer that question and you'll see my problem with the audition process.
sloan wrote:If your personnel director can't plow through 500 resumes and whittle the field down to 10, you need to hold auditions for a new personnel director!
Sorry, I really don't think they can based on words on a piece of paper. Just my 2 cents.
Karl H.
pro musician
pro musician
Posts: 223
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:25 am

Re: The reality of being an auditioning classical musician

Post by Karl H. »

The pain I felt when reading this article was NOT about the candidate who practiced 20 hours a day and failed, but about the guy who HAD the job and then was refused tenure. We were not told enough details to determine, exactly, why he was denied, but it is HIS future happiness/sanity I'd worry about...

Karl "probably worries too much about things that don't even concern him" H.
User avatar
sloan
On Ice
On Ice
Posts: 1827
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:34 pm
Location: Nutley, NJ

Re: The reality of being an auditioning classical musician

Post by sloan »

bloke wrote:(Admittedly having not read the article...)
BZZZZT! Thank you for playing.
Kenneth Sloan
User avatar
Roger Lewis
pro musician
pro musician
Posts: 1161
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:48 am

Re: The reality of being an auditioning classical musician

Post by Roger Lewis »

The person who was denied tenure with the BSO has the harder issue than the one who didn't advance in the audition. From the description there is a bit of PTSD going on, but there is also a grieving process that needs to happen. There is a lot of self doubt now because no one could give him a straight answer as to why his tenure was being denied. Many times this avoiding of the issue is just a way of saying that "your personality just doesn't fit in here". But you are left to figure that out for yourself and you may never get a handle on it (It couldn't possibly be me - I'm the easiest guy in the world to get along with").

Let's face it. To be in this business you have to believe in yourself, to the point where perhaps you don't see your own personality issues. So sometimes you have to try to look at yourself from the other person's perspective and be ready for the cold, hard slap of reality and be ready to make some changes and accept some valid criticism. In one of my longer psych papers (275 pages) I mentioned that a musician had to have an ego based on reality. Having more ego than talent usually leads to a very short career, fraught with failure.

I know a few people who are monster players and have won some major gigs, but, because they isolated themselves in a practice room for years, they can't carry on a casual conversation with their "friends" and they don't know how to communicate in a diplomatic fashion. They are just lacking in interpersonal skills. They're great players, but could you handle being around them for the next 30 years in a section?

I know this sounds harsh, but sometimes a good shrink can help you put some of the negatives behind you and let you get on with your life. But IT HAS TO HURT ENOUGH FOR YOU TO WANT TO CHANGE.

Have a great evening all.

Roger
"The music business is a cruel and shallow trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S Thompson
eupher61
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 2790
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:37 pm

Re: The reality of being an auditioning classical musician

Post by eupher61 »

The article is talking about reality. First-hand experience. People who have been there.

I've not been there MUCH, and not in a long time. Enough to know I don't belong there. Enough to know that this article is not fabrication. One-sided, yes. Points embellished...maybe. (but only the purely personal things.) But based on absolute reality.
User avatar
Lingon
4 valves
4 valves
Posts: 558
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:41 am
Location: Sweden

Re: The reality of being an auditioning classical musician

Post by Lingon »

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:
Lingon wrote:
Todd S. Malicoate wrote:[...but dang...how much "better" can one guy play the snare drum part in Capriccio Espagnol than another?...
Make that Bolero by Ravel and I can assure you that even amongst the best there are differences.
I wouldn't doubt that there are differences. Of course there are. The question is, which one is the "best"?
That's the big question. How to measure that in a precise and objective way? The audition committee and/or the music director decides. And no one can be totally sure that "The Best" really is the best. Everything is up to personal taste and preferences. So best is not always best. But OTOH best could be best in some cases. Is it best to play without even one glitch, is it best to play so that the audience's hair rises, is it best to play in or out of tune, best to play as fast as possible?? There is also the social bit of the puzzle. If somebody plays fastest, most in tune etc but is impossible to communicate with and another one does play so so but is brilliant to work with socially and communicatively. Is it really possible to say that someone is best? Who should decide, committee or music director?

The Japanese procedure that was mentioned earlier with the whole orchestra involved seems to be a good but slightly more complicated way. However their way of making things in consensus may work better because everyone is involved and may have some impact on the result and hopefully like what is decided. So even if it is more complicated the result may work better for all. Maybe?!
John Lingesjo
TubaRay
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 4109
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:24 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Contact:

Re: The reality of being an auditioning classical musician

Post by TubaRay »

Karl H. wrote:The pain I felt when reading this article was NOT about the candidate who practiced 20 hours a day and failed, but about the guy who HAD the job and then was refused tenure. We were not told enough details to determine, exactly, why he was denied, but it is HIS future happiness/sanity I'd worry about...
This is truly an excellent point.
Ray Grim
The TubaMeisters
San Antonio, Tx.
User avatar
Todd S. Malicoate
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 2378
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:12 pm
Location: Tulsa, OK

Re: The reality of being an auditioning classical musician

Post by Todd S. Malicoate »

LJV wrote:
TubaRay wrote:
Karl H. wrote:The pain I felt when reading this article was NOT about the candidate who practiced 20 hours a day and failed, but about the guy who HAD the job and then was refused tenure. We were not told enough details to determine, exactly, why he was denied, but it is HIS future happiness/sanity I'd worry about...
This is truly an excellent point.
Took a heck of a lot of courage to open up and talk to that writer about their experience. Hopefully it was cathartic and helps in their healing process.
Well, to be fair, at least the guy now has "Boston Symphony" on his resume for the rest of his life.

Apparently, that's the most important factor in getting through the first round.
eupher61
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 2790
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:37 pm

Re: The reality of being an auditioning classical musician

Post by eupher61 »

I've been fired from a job I loved,at which all reports but one said I was great, and where I had lots of friends. It's life. Yes, I hope there are no problems, but job loss happens.
TubaRay
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 4109
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:24 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Contact:

Re: The reality of being an auditioning classical musician

Post by TubaRay »

eupher61 wrote:I've been fired from a job I loved,at which all reports but one said I was great, and where I had lots of friends. It's life. Yes, I hope there are no problems, but job loss happens.
True. Life has its ups and downs. Sometimes they are quite large, but they are seldom insurmountable.
Ray Grim
The TubaMeisters
San Antonio, Tx.
Tom
5 valves
5 valves
Posts: 1579
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:01 am

Re: The reality of being an auditioning classical musician

Post by Tom »

The whole issue of tenue and the tenure review committee is something that many auditioning musicians never think about. It's not something that typically exists in the rest of the working world (ourside of higher education). Younger musicians and students may not even know what tenure is let alone that the major US orchestras all have a tenue system in place.

I thought that article was interesting because it touched on both sides of the issue: getting the job in the first place (or not getting it in this case) and keeping the job (or not keeping it in this case). As was noted, keeping the job isn't a given even if you were the audition "winner."

In the orchestra I work with, the probationary period is two seasons. A musician is not offered a third season until the musician meets with the tenure review committee and Music Director at the end of the first season and is given written feedback and then again at the end of the second season. Following both of those meetings the musician will either be granted tenue or be dismissed.

Yes, musicians do sometimes get denied tenue even after two years of service. It can happen for any number of reasons.

I also want to address the issue of musicians being "appointed," as was mentioned back on page one. They cannot completely circumvent the audition process, but yes, musicians can still be appointed, though it's not exactly instant and (of course!) there is a procedure that has to be followed that is generally standard among the large US orchestras that goes like this:

-In consultation with the audition committee, the Music Director may invite candidates to perform work weeks with the orchestra or services with the orchestra in lieu of the national audition.

-Any candidate invited to play with the orchestra as part of such invitation will be asked to perform a solo audition before the audition committee and Music Director at the conclusion of the candidate's services / work with the orchestra. This requirement can be waived (at some orchestras) by mutual agreement of the audition committee and Music Director.

-After the canidate performs the work with the orchestra and performs a solo audition (even if they decline the solo audition), the candidate advances to final voting.

In this day and age, this is how orchestras are able to recruit top talent away from one another.

I wrote more about the audition procedure and the screening of applicants back on the Charlotte Symphony audition thread (for those that just HAVE to read more about this :roll: )
The Darling Of The Thirty-Cents-Sharp Low D♭'s.
User avatar
k001k47
5 valves
5 valves
Posts: 1469
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 2:54 am
Location: Tejas

Re: The reality of being an auditioning classical musician

Post by k001k47 »

email sent
Post Reply