Have sousaphones sent in to be fixed, come back not complete

[toobagrowl]

While I was there I took it as my responsibility to maintain each and every horn we used (12 Yamaha silver sousas, 2 old King fiberglass [yellow], and the half dozen or more old Conns).

That's a lot of sousaphones. Must have been a big band program.

Sadly the most common damage was to the Yamaha's every year at least 2-3 people would snap a valve stem off, look at me and say "Oops, I'll go grab a different horn." Nobody had any sense of value for sousaphones or tubas which made it hard to be sure that everybody had a horn to play. I can remember marching with people missing a valve every once in a while because they snapped their damn valve stems off. I look back and cringe...

That would piss me off, too. It's like some kids don't know (or care) that they treat $7,500 sousaphones like crap. Crazy...

[toobagrowl]

1/ Good repair-guys will not even bother to refer to your list.
2/ Bad ones cannot be helped by any sort of list.

I am guessing they were the latter

This is the main reason I started doing my own repairs. I am amazed at how mediocre most repairmen/brass techs are in my area. And the few good ones are too far away and are either too busy or don't want to be bothered. I just got fed up with it all and started doing it on my own.

[tubatom91]

While I was there I took it as my responsibility to maintain each and every horn we used (12 Yamaha silver sousas, 2 old King fiberglass [yellow], and the half dozen or more old Conns).

That's a lot of sousaphones. Must have been a big band program.
l:

Yeah one year we marched 16 on the field, We never used all of the sousaphones available but we came damn close, it's a good thing we didn't have to use them all honestly.

[J.c. Sherman]

The OP confused me a lot, but the original complaint seamed to be "why don't techs test these things before sending them back". The answer is often simple:

Becase you didn't send us the whole instrument, yutz!

I know I need to test an instrument before it goes out; I'm human and sometimes forget "oops, left off the waterkey cork" or "oops, I hear/feal a loose screw". But so often Band directors send in only 75% of the instrument. Hell, why not just take the valves out next time and make it even easier on yourself? After all, we can play these things with our minds, or by using The Force!

Do us a favor, Band "directors"; send in the damn horn - ALL of it... bits, neck, Bell. I don't have money to buy every make and model of sousaphone's extra bits, nor should I; I buy those to sell 'em, not keep on hand because you're lazy.

\End rant. Get off my lawn.

J.c.S.

[J.c. Sherman]

Indeed, ewveryone has their own system...

We get both types of Kings, both Jupiters, Bundy, Signet, 14 and 10Ks, it's a very long list. Plus, sometimes the Band directors (most of them) have no idea if the darn things are working or not. I simply don't have that many variety of necks, and I don't want to employ a new one we know were going to sell. Bells - to me - don't eat a tone of space threaded through the body, and again - they often don't know if the bell's out of round at the joint, leaking at the ferule on two-pieces, stuck screw in the lyer... etc. Just my own preference, I suppose, but these directors can't play a tuba any more than an an Irish Bagpipe to test it themselves.

We've got lot's of storage, and disks of cardboard to protect the bell from the body.

SO maybe the answer to directors is "ask the tech".

J.c.S.

[Tom]

If I were in the position of the repairman, I'd be the most inclined to do whatever the person paying the bill asked me to do. That may or may not correspond to any sort of wishlist a student or end user put together. It's business, not personal.

[tubaguy9]

Tom, as a repairman, you learn that if you do as the customer asks and the horn still doesn't play, it's your fault.
What you do is to figure out how much it will be to repair, including what the customer asks, and include playing into the cost.
Would you want the responsibility of sounding like crap because the customer asked for that, or would you want to put your best foot forward?

[Tom]

Tom, as a repairman, you learn that if you do as the customer asks and the horn still doesn't play, it's your fault.

Uh, no, not literally unless the customer brings you a non-playing instrument and asks you to get it into playing condition and you fail to do so.

What you do is to figure out how much it will be to repair, including what the customer asks, and include playing into the cost.

You're saying that every repairman should take the customer request and then ADD to that request the play conditioning of the instrument and charge accordingly? And that repairmen have an obligation to perform this service no matter what? Personally I disagree with that notion and don't want any repairman taking it upon himself to do anything to any of my stuff that I have not requested. Options are a different story...if the repairman said "you know, your water key cork is missing and I would suggest replacing it. It would make the instrument play better," I could then say "ok" or "no thanks," but it's my choice and I am responsible for how well or how poorly an instrument plays, not the repairman. It would be great if the repairman just replaced the water key cork out of the goodness of his heart, but I wouldn't expect it unless I asked for it and/or was paying for it.

Would you want the responsibility of sounding like crap because the customer asked for that, or would you want to put your best foot forward?

Again, I would be the most inclined to perform whatever service the customer was paying for. I guess that I'll qualify that for you by saying that the services that the customer is paying for would be determined only following some sort of consultation where the customers wishes were discussed along with any other work suggested by the repairman. That gives the customer the option to decide what they want, not the repairman.

Tom "realizing this is silly to argue about since I'm not a repairman and don't really care what other people do to/with their stuff and wouldn't blame my repairman if I sounded like crap"

I guess I'm glad that I'm not your repairman

[tubaguy9]

I gues what I've been taught, is "if you fix the wron thing, you're wrong. If you fix what they ask and it doesn't work, it's wrong".
Some of the repair "work" is fixing the customer.

[sloan]

As a customer, here's what I expect:

a) I outline my priorities (playability vs shiny, for example)
b) I explain what I want done in broadbrush terms
c) I take it to people who I *know* will not let it leave the shop
unless they are happy with it
d) I'm willing to pay whatever is necessary to do what *I* want *and* what
the shop think is necessary, given my priorities.

I know that I don't know enough to identify and specify *everything* that needs
to be done. I also realize that other customers have different priorities. As long as I have made my priorities clear, I count on the shop doing "the right thing".

So far, I have rarely been disappointed.

[tubatom91]

I would like to send the OP's repairman this http://memegenerator.net/instance/23378884

[J.c. Sherman]

True: You talk with the customer. You tell them what you observe, you listen to what they want, then you tell them what you cannot observe without checking/flushing/playing/etc.

True: If you do what the customer wants and it doesn't play and they expected it to (whether or not they told you this), you'll be to blame. Period. In a perfect world, sure, the customer should bare the responsibilty; in reality, your shop will be branded heretical, you will be banded a thief, and you'll have to endure the cursing from the customer at you.

False: I can play the horn without all of it's constituent parts.

False: I can bill to make it play without their approval for service. And this blows. I can only work within the boundaries of their discussion, but I have to make it play as best as possible with the direction given.

True: Most people don't know what they want, are completely clueless how the damn things work, and even explaining it is often pointless, especially to parents.

True: A good professional, however, is easy to converse with and explain what you can and cannot observe, and 100% of the time, they want it to play, and better than when they brought it to you.

True: This is why I've chosen my work as I have; I love historic instruments, I love to build things, and I cannot stand yelling.