curved mpc shank

[pjv]

Howdy,

Does anybody know if there are any negative effects to the qualities of a mpc with a bent shank (assuming its been done properly)?

I've been playing with the idea of replacing the standard Conn sousaphone neck&bits set-up for a real lead pipe and a bent mpc. I'm hoping that by having a lead pipe made to fit my playing position, a bend in the mpc shank should be enough for the small adjustments needed to get the mpc in a comfortable position.

-Thanks,

Patrick

[Todd S. Malicoate]

It doesn't seem to bother the tone quality on sousaphones when the neck bits are bent at fairly large angles, so I don't see why it would negatively affect the tone quality if you did the same at the shank.

Assuming, as you said, the bend was done correctly. I'd be interested to see a mouthpiece that had been modified in such a way.

[Donn]

I'd get two (or more) identical mouthpieces, keep the shank straight on one of them. If you're lucky, that one will turn out to be the best fit anyway.

It doesn't seem to bother the tone quality on sousaphones when the neck bits are bent at fairly large angles, so I don't see why it would negatively affect the tone quality if you did the same at the shank.

Well, bear in mind, you're speaking to someone who is going to a lot of trouble to replace that neck bit assembly with a leadpipe that doesn't have those kinks. Anyway, it wouldn't be a big surprise if it turned out that the dimensions of the mouthpiece backbore are more critical than the corresponding dimensions of the leadpipe.

[Dan Schultz]

I've never had a call to bend the shank of a tuba MP. However... I've bent several trumpet MP's for kids with bite problems. Doesn't seem to mess with the dynamics and allowed the kids to play over their stands instead of at the floor.

[pjv]

The position of the mpc changes according on ones shoulder to mouth ratio, if you catch my drift. This distance can change depending on what piled on top of that shoulder; practicing might be in a t-shirt, a gig might be in a tux and a funeral that might be a sweater and a jacket. It also changes over time due to fat or muscle development. And lastly there's the day to day idiosyncrasies; on a clear day maybe I'm holding my head up higher. Crooning the neck to get to the mpc is not for me.

With the tuba we make the little adjustments almost unnoticeably by tilting the horn just a smidgen to the left or right, forward or backward, changing the angle of the mpc just enough to get a comfortable position. You can't really do this comfortably on a sous and that why the neck&bits set up is so genius.

The disadvantage of the neck&bits set up (at least on the Conn) are the constant gaps the airstream has to deal with; from the mpc shank to the 1st bit, 1st bit to the 2nd bit, 2nd bit to the neck, and I've no idea how the connection is on the inside of the neck to were it connects with the horn. I'm hoping that by reducing the stairways in the beginning of the airstream I'll increase the precision of the sousaphones response.

I do a lot of standing in my line of work. A tuba on a string hangs on the belly and is VERY uncomfortable for me to work with. So I'm looking towards upgrading my sousaphone set-up. For this reason I might dump my 40K and look for a 32K, a 14K or a 2350. If heard that these models have way less intonation problems.
-Cheers
Pat

[pjv]

The position of the mpc changes according on ones shoulder to mouth ratio, if you catch my drift. This distance can change depending on what piled on top of that shoulder; practicing might be in a t-shirt, a gig might be in a tux and a funeral that might be a sweater and a jacket. It also changes over time due to fat or muscle development. And lastly there's the day to day idiosyncrasies; on a clear day maybe I'm holding my head up higher. Crooning the neck to get to the mpc is not for me.

With the tuba we make the little adjustments almost unnoticeably by tilting the horn just a smidgen to the left or right, forward or backward, changing the angle of the mpc just enough to get a comfortable position. You can't really do this comfortably on a sous and that why the neck&bits set up is so genius.

The disadvantage of the neck&bits set up (at least on the Conn) are the constant gaps the airstream has to deal with; from the mpc shank to the 1st bit, 1st bit to the 2nd bit, 2nd bit to the neck, and I've no idea how the connection is on the inside of the neck to were it connects with the horn. I'm hoping that by reducing the stairways in the beginning of the airstream I'll increase the precision of the sousaphones response.

I do a lot of standing in my line of work. A tuba on a string hangs on the belly and is VERY uncomfortable for me to work with. So I'm looking towards upgrading my sousaphone set-up. For this reason I might dump my 40K and look for a 32K, a 14K or a 2350. If heard that these models have way less intonation problems.
-Cheers
Pat

[Donn]

So I'm looking towards upgrading my sousaphone set-up. For this reason I might dump my 40K and look for a 32K, a 14K or a 2350. If heard that these models have way less intonation problems.

I can just barely sort of wrap my head around the idea that there could be an upgrade from the Conn 40K, but for intonation ... I remain skeptical. For example, King sousaphones are fairly highly regarded, but allegedly suffer from a flat 6th partial. I suppose each sousaphone of any make may be a little different from the next, though, so it's possible you may find one that works better for you.

[pjv]

A flat 6th partial comes down to 3 notes; f, e & eb.

The 40K has a flat 5th partial; D, Db, C & B, plus the low 3rd partial F & E and a high B, assuming the 4th is tuned to give a tunable 3rd partial C. C w/ 1&3 doesn't cut it. This instruments a lip-breaker intonation wise.

It's time to shop around. If I find a sous which comfortably tunes with the other horns in my section, I'll hopefully know by then how I want to tackle the lead pipe situation.

-Cheers,
Patrick

[MikeW]

According to this thread, Wilfried Brandstotter (tuba in Mnozil brass) used to use a mouthpiece with a bent shank, and apparently these are not uncommon in military bands:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=50729

This thread discussed how to bend a shank...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15131&hilit=bent+shank

[pjv]

Thanks for the link! I tried several keywords but couldn't find anything in the archives. Didn't think to use "bend" in the past tense.

Cheers,
Pat

[Donn]

The forum search has its limitations. It's often much more effective to use Google etc. to search Tubenet -

Google: bend shank site:chisham.com

... which miraculously puts the above thread second on the list, right after yours. Blekko (bend shank /site=chisham.com) isn't as lucky this time.

The down side of the external search is that it matches on everything, not just the body of the message - so you must hope no regular poster's `signature' includes the term you're searching for.