Has anyone played side by side...

[JohnSzkutko]

... the new Miraphone Belcanto F along side a Yamaha Custom F 822?

Or not necessarily side by side but can remember and compare the characteristics of these 2 tubas?

I currently use the Yamaha Custom F, so I know what it is like. I ask for this comparison for 2 reasons, 1 is to find out the actual differences between the 2 and secondly, the price of the Belcanto seems very reasonable. I might be able to get away selling my Yamaha then buying Miraphone without too much financing needed, if the Miraphone is worth it.

FYI, I live no where near a Belcanto owner to make my own comparison.

Thanks for any help.

[AHynds]

I haven't played them side by side, but I have played both of those horns in the last year or so. For my tastes (and this only applies to myself, so take it for what it's worth), I find the Yamaha to be the better horn. In my experience, I've enjoyed playing the standard Firebird F more than the one Bel Canto I played, but again, that's just my opinion. For what it's worth, I am a bigger fan of piston Fs than rotary, and I like to play slightly large F tubas, so I might be biased in that regard.

[Bob Kolada]

Doc, the 183 is the old Eb model.

[JohnSzkutko]

Thanks so far for the replies

I was expecting differing opinions and got them. My main source of opinion I know personally and trust very much but I need more and have got them here.

Please continue to contribute if you can.

Bloke, my main issue with Yamaha is intonation. Yes, it's the blower's responsibility to play in tune but it doesn't help when there are a couple of bum notes courtesy of the horn. I've tried different MPs with similar results. Fortunately I can play it in tune. But I also play a 1291 Bb Miraphone which has no bum notes but the usual intonation adjustments needed. It performs better than the Yamaha in some ways too.

If what I've heard about the Belcanto is good and true, and being a Miraphone, it should have the same or similar playing characteristics as my Bb. Why wouldn't I change over? Life would be more consistent without having to struggle with a particular horn.

Also, if I can get a great offer on my Yamaha (it's in near perfect condition except case) I might be able to have some change left over.

Let's see what happens!!!

[MartyNeilan]

If what I've heard about the Belcanto is good and true, and being a Miraphone, it should have the same or similar playing characteristics as my Bb. Why wouldn't I change over? Life would be more consistent without having to struggle with a particular horn.

That is a very dangerous generalization to make. Although I haven't played the Bel Canto, I am sure that it has many different playing characteristics than a large BBb tuba. While there are some similarities across a manufacturer, things like pitch tendencies can vary widely among models.
(e.g. My Prius gets very good gas mileage, so a Toyota Tundra should do the same.)

[MartyNeilan]

I would encourage you to not assume shared characteristics model-to-model by brand.

Chevy made both the Chevette and the Caprice.

The Caprice was an extraordinarily spacious and problem-free car, and got nearly 30 mpg on the highway.

The Chevette was an extraordinarily cramped and problem-plagued car, and got about 30 mpg on the highway.

Argh! I've been Bloke'd by one minute!

[JohnSzkutko]

I'm aware of the dangers of comparing different pitched and valve tubas within a makers range of instruments.

That's why I've started this thread, to get honest thoughts about the individual horns i'm asking about, as I don't have experience with one of them.

Ideally i'd love to play them side by side or even individually but I don't have this luxury.

[Roger Lewis]

My experience on these two horns is that the Yamaha will still be easier to play in the low register than the Bel Canto, however, the Bel Canto will be much more in tune and have a more consistent color of sound through the range, than the Yamaha. It also has a more pleasant sound that the Yamaha, but again that is a personal taste.

If you are playing the 1291 BBb, then I would recommend, for similar performance and tuning tendencies, that you look more toward the Petruschka F tuba. The Petruschka is actually bigger in every measurement than the Yamaha except the size of the bell. That is, of course, if you want to have a piston F tuba.

If you want a rotary F then I would definitely look at the Bel Canto. The PT10 was copied from this framework developed by Miraphone and it has been much improved since the early 181 model. Much better color of sound than the Yamaha IMHO but still does not have the "snap" in the low register that the Yamaha has, though it is very good. I would recommend the 6 valve model for more flexibility, but this is a personal preference since I love a 6 valve F.

I love the way the Bel Canto plays and it only comes in gold brass which gives it a sound more rich in color and will hold together better at louder volumes.

Personally I love an F tuba that is an F tuba, not something that is trying to sound like a CC in an F tuba body. I think the Bel Canto matches this profile very well while the Yamaha doesn't. The Petruschka will give you Yamaha-like performance with a much better color of sound and superior tuning tendencies.

Also, the Bel Canto comes in two different models. There is a "Solo Model" that is a bit thinner with a quicker response, and there is a "Symphonic Model" that is a little thicker and will handle louder dynamics with ease, Both are great horns, but in some ways not as solid as the Yamaha. But I would take a Bel Canto over an 822 any day.

Just my $0.02.

Roger

[JohnSzkutko]

Joe/Bloke, I agree with what you have said and have thought about it a lot but $$'s are scarce for myself. My budget is based solely on the sale of my Yamaha.

Thanks for your experiences Roger, this is the stuff I'm looking for.

Overall, from these opinions, my lack of extra funds and anxiety, I'll go that "extra mile" by saving a few $'s to go to Sydney and test some out with Steve Rosse. This type of purchase really needs my own physical experience BEFORE making a decision, which I could regret based solely on information.

This thread has helped me greatly, thanks everyone to date. Please continue to let me know what you know about this.