Shindler's List Arr for tuba, how to publish

[Michael Bush]

2. The changes I made to my purchased copy is no different than someone buying the Vaughan Williams and adding their own tempo's, dynamics or adding/changing a few notes to personalize the piece for their own performance. There is not a pro out there I know of that doesn’t keep a pencil on hand at all times to mark reminders within their music of their intentions on what they want to do. If I am wrong here than every piece of music I own is all messed up.

Exactly. I didn't want to be argumentative, but it did seem to me that on knuxie's theory, Mr. Pokorny is in deep trouble for his performance of the RVW in May, which seems clearly to meet knuxie's criteria for an "arrangement." Yet I notice there has been no news of Pokorny or the CSO being sued so far.

[PMeuph]

2. The changes I made to my purchased copy is no different than someone buying the Vaughan Williams and adding their own tempo's, dynamics or adding/changing a few notes to personalize the piece for their own performance. There is not a pro out there I know of that doesn’t keep a pencil on hand at all times to mark reminders within their music of their intentions on what they want to do. If I am wrong here than every piece of music I own is all messed up.


My Question is this, where do we have to draw the line when it comes to performing a piece of music that we purchase? Are we allowed to make it our own? Are we allowed to make changes to the dynamics? Why can't we change what’s on the page to make something more accessible to our abilities? If I take something down or up an octave, am I in violation of copyright laws?

You might not know this, but every time someone performs a work a report should be filled to ASCAP and pay the required fees. Universities, Symphony Orchestras, Professional bands, etc...(Excluding Armed forces and Church groups) all have to fill some kind of report. Performing the work gives you a certain artistic license (tweaking tempos, dynamics, articulations, octaves, etc) but you must still credit the arranger and/or the composer of the work.

For example, if you decided to put on a recital tomorrow and wanted to perform "your arrangement" of Schindler's List, it would be much easier in your report to use the source from which you based your arrangement. (Flute Score, Violin Score, etc) That way, the royalties that the composer and arranger deserves would be received properly.

Performing and publishing works are two different areas. You can perform a work without following a score to the letter, but if you decide to publish it, you have to go through other channels.

[Michael Bush]

... but if you decide to publish it, you have to go through other channels.

And that is why we have this thread.

[PMeuph]

2. The changes I made to my purchased copy is no different than someone buying the Vaughan Williams and adding their own tempo's, dynamics or adding/changing a few notes to personalize the piece for their own performance. There is not a pro out there I know of that doesn’t keep a pencil on hand at all times to mark reminders within their music of their intentions on what they want to do. If I am wrong here than every piece of music I own is all messed up.

Exactly. I didn't want to be argumentative, but it did seem to me that on knuxie's theory, Mr. Pokorny is in deep trouble for his performance of the RVW in May, which seems clearly to meet knuxie's criteria for an "arrangement." Yet I notice there has been no news of Pokorny or the CSO being sued so far.

Mr. Pokorny has not, to my knowledge, published his version of the RVW. If he did so without Oxford's approval, (unless he did it in Canada where the RVW is Public Domain) he would be in trouble. As all he did was perform it, the CSO probably payed the appropriate amount that was owed to ASCAP in order to perform the work.

[Michael Bush]

Mr. Pokorny has not, to my knowledge, published his version of the RVW. If he did so without Oxford's approval, (unless he did it in Canada where the RVW is Public Domain) he would be in trouble. As all he did was perform it, the CSO probably payed the appropriate amount that was owed to ASCAP in order to perform the work.

He would not have to have published it, according to knuxie's post on page 2:

However, if you tweaked the piece by 1) Changing tempos and writing these changes out on the page, 2) Changing/adding notes for dexterity or other musical purposes, and again, wrote these changes out on the page, and/or 3) made any changes not in the original or arranged score already (i.e. your dynamics changes), this is considered 'arranging' or 'adapting', which you would need permission to make public.

There may be other "violations" of the "laws" in this paragraph, depending on how many notes to himself Mr. Pokorny made. Perhaps he prepared all his interpretations without making any written notes, but if so I will be much more impressed with him and that performance than I am already.

[MackBrass]

David also overlooked the fact the piece was not played directly from the score. The OP admitted to 'tweaking' the work...changing dynamics, adding notes, etc., and writing these tweaks out as a separate score. This makes this an ARRANGEMENT and definitely not fair use. The fact he wants to make this arrangement available to his friends is a HUGE no-no without permission. Look at the title...he's even asking how he can publish this arrangement. 'Fair use' is not even in the ballpark with this one. That video needs to be pulled...quickly.

I was refering to the above where you state making this available to my friends without permission, never did i make such a statement nor is that my intent.

[MaryAnn]

I have one more question on this. Suppose a trombone quintet took a brass quartet (that they have purchased) and wrote it out for themselves. Due to the different number of parts this is definitely an arrangement, even if none of the notes were changed.

They perform it, report it to ASCAP as the original brass quartet and pay the fee.

Are they in copyright violation?

MA

[TMurphy]

So, what you're telling me is, if I purchase a piece of music from a publisher, I'm not allowed to perform it, without paying additional fees? Every time I purchase a piece of music from JW Pepper for my school band, I violate copyright by performing it on the concert? If that is true...just what in the hell am I paying for when I purchase the music??

[eupher61]

I have one more question on this. Suppose a trombone quintet took a brass quartet (that they have purchased) and wrote it out for themselves. Due to the different number of parts this is definitely an arrangement, even if none of the notes were changed.

They perform it, report it to ASCAP as the original brass quartet and pay the fee.

Are they in copyright violation?

MA

per my understanding, which is more than most but not as much as many, YES. No permission was given to write the chart. They could perform it from the original parts, fine. But not the written differences.

That's why 19th c. music (and earlier) is so good...as long as an edition out of PD is used as the basis, any arrangement can be done, published, and sold, with no rights payments required---except to the new publisher!

I've been going through a situation where a group doesn't see the purpose of paying Harry Fox for mechanical rights. I've refused to do the recording. I know with little question that a couple of those people have interest in a patent...what if someone started infringing on their patent? Do you think that would be challenged? The argument has been made about scale of distribution. Legally and ethically, that makes no matter, the recording is done and no rights paid. WRONG.

[Michael Bush]

I think this is like driving. There are the laws, and then there is the way people actually drive, even right in front of the police.

If the laws we have heard about in this thread were enforced consistently and to the letter, it would eliminate the ability of musicians and ensembles to do what they in fact do as a matter of course.

[PMeuph]

So, what you're telling me is, if I purchase a piece of music from a publisher, I'm not allowed to perform it, without paying additional fees? Every time I purchase a piece of music from JW Pepper for my school band, I violate copyright by performing it on the concert? If that is true...just what in the hell am I paying for when I purchase the music??

School bands fall under another category where they don't have to pay royalties to perform works. The same goes with Army bands and church orchestras. However, If you start a community band and play the same music as you would in your school band, you would have to pay to play in a public situation.

[Michael Bush]

I have no music but a good bit of copyrighted non-fiction prose in print. If I or my publishers attempted a level of enforcement analogous to what we're talking about here with music, I would do little else. It would be stupid of me and them.

In fact, the most interesting piece to some people that I've got out there is published by a German publisher and costs, no joke, $125 US. Several times a year people ask me for the manuscript because they're working on a related question and the price is insane. I send it every time. They then write articles and dissertations that say I got it partly right and partly wrong, and propose doing it their own way. Sometimes they misunderstand my point or even willfully quote me out of context in order to sustain their point. This is all fine with me, (though I could do without the misleading quotes). I see no point in getting all righteous about it and stopping people from thriving by doing what they do just because they haven't paid me a few cents. In fact, I see the point in not doing that.

I think it is petty to complain if someone changes a dynamic marking or switches an octave in a composition or arrangement to make it more fitting for their skills or their vision. And I strongly suspect — indeed, pretty much know for sure, based on what actually happens in performances I attend — that most composers and arrangers practice the same kind of restraint I'm suggesting.