Review of Gemeinhardt Production CC and BBb piston tubas

[turo]

Nirschl is still in Brazil? Interesting! So there are German (maybe?), Brazilian, and Chinese-made Nirschl horns? Confusing!

As far as I know, there are German ( Meister Walter Nirschl ) and Brazilian ( Weingrill & Nirschl ). The Chinese horns are Gemeinhardt and Walter is not involved in this project.

[eupher61]

Anyone who wants to join me (and probably my nephew) on July 10 for a massed Gemeinhardt bash is more than welcome. I"m planning to be there as much of the day as Dick will allow.

steve

[bort]

Yes, I know some of them are made in the US. I was careful to say "made in China" and not "not made in Germany."

Regarding Miraphone, that doesn't sound *too* unusual...here in the US, you only have to provide the origin if it's NOT made in the US. Companies frequently like to point out that things are made in the US, so they do this... but it's not a requirement. But to me, anything is better than reading a whole explanation like "Designed in ___, made in ___." It's made where it's made!

[bisontuba]

Hi-
I see someone else has tried out the production lacquer CC 4 piston Gemeinhardt tuba...FYI...mark



More pics added at: http://www.barthsbrassblog.com" target="_blank and click on the top of the right side....

[k001k47]

The F back at TMEA wasn't my cup of tea, but I'm really digging that CC! Anyone know if one will be in TX any time soon?

[Wyvern]

I am talking with Richard about possibly getting a Gemeinhardt demonstrator here in the UK. If you live this side of the pond and are seriously interested, let me know with what key of tuba - that may help determine what I get over (e.g. If most people interested in CC, then that will be priority)

Incidentally on asking about the cost, although they are made in China, it is apparently done using German tooling and are original American designs.

[bort]

The problem is that "made in China" means a lot of different things. There's the China that we see and the China we don't see. There are factories with poor conditions, cheap and poor quality products, corruption and all the "perks" of a communist government. There are also super-modern cities, high-end products, and high quality materials made in good "Western" conditions. It depends where you are, and who you are.

China is also a HUGE mystery to Americans. I doubt many Americans can name more than 2 or 3 Chinese cities...which means they are NOT able to name over 100 cities with more than a million people each. That's a LOT to not know!

But overall in the US, saying "China" usually brings about the bad stuff, to a degree that can be overlooked if the price is right. I don't agree with that, but that's the reality I've seen. It'll take some time and a whole lot of effort to get past that. Even if the quality is good (or great), the hard part is constantly qualifying it as great, not just "great for being made in China." And if that doesn't take hold, people won't want to pay as much money for them as a German horn. And no matter how good the tuba is, it's only worth as much as someone will pay for it.

[eupher61]

Anyone who wants to join me (and probably my nephew) on July 10 for a massed Gemeinhardt bash is more than welcome. I"m planning to be there as much of the day as Dick will allow.

steve

July 10 is not going to work for me...it's become a PITA day. ouch.. I'm hoping to reschedule for later in July or early August.

[bisontuba]

Hi-
Updated news on the arrival times on the production horns-FYI-
Mark

http://www.barthsbrassblog.com" target="_blank

[bort]

Any update on where people can actually buy these?

[bisontuba]

Hi
Contact Dick Barth for info at: rbarth@gemeinhardt.com" target="_blank

Mark

[iiipopes]

If/when I move slides while playing my instruments, I do it for pitch.

+1

I disagree. Lips and embouchure set the pitch. No less a player than Patrick Sheridan said we pull for tone, not for pitch.

[ken k]

If/when I move slides while playing my instruments, I do it for pitch.

+1

I disagree. Lips and embouchure set the pitch. No less a player than Patrick Sheridan said we pull for tone, not for pitch.

well it is sort of semantics.... if you need to lip a note up or down you are fighting the natural acoustic tendency for the horn, so you are not going to have as good a tone as you normally would.

Consequently, when you pull or push a slide, making the horn longer or shorter so that it is set up to be more in tune, you do not have to lip the pitch up or down, therefore you will have a better tone. So in reality you pull or push slides to optimize both tuning and tone....

ken "which came first the chicken or the egg? " k

[bisontuba]

Hi-
Update on arrival times, prices, pics, etc. of the Gemeinhardt --soon to be known as 'Big Mouth Brass' --production CC & BBb tubas( see the blog for info)---FYI-
Mark

http://www.barthsbrassblog.com" target="_blank

PS Contact Dick Barth directly for add'l info/questions... His email:
rbarth@gemeinhardt.com" target="_blank OR at bigmouthbrass@gmail.com" target="_blank

[Wyvern]

"Big Mouth Brass"

That won't look goofy or unprofessional. At all.

How about "Barth Brass Works" or somthing along those lines...

To do all this work of testing, etc. then to tag them with something that silly seems like dropping the ball on the one yard line.

I would tend to agree! Engraving just 'BARTH' would suffice I would think, particularly if it was done with some nice script and ornamentation.

That is probably even more the case this side of the pond. I know some people who will not buy a particular brand here in the UK because of its goofy engraving

[imperialbari]

'Big Mourh Brass

Is that ‘Big Tonkomong Brass’ in English?

[bort]

I guess "Big Bottom" was already taken...?

What's confusing to me is that Gemeinhardt also has on their Web site clarinets, saxophones, and strings. Yes, they are most well known as a flute company, but if "not being a flute" is the criteria for rebranding, this seems a little off. Although it's not true, it almost makes it seem like Gemeinhardt doesn't want to be (or isn't) involved in the tuba project anymore. Even something stupid like Gemeinhardt Brassworks would be better, and at least recognizable as being related.

My problem with the name is the shift from a recognizable brand name to something obscure and "goofy." That seems like a huge and unnecessary risk for a brand new product line to not leverage every bit of advantage they can from what they already have.

The upshot is that 1) the name engraved on the bell is just another "who cares" thing when it comes to sound and 2) it sounds like this might only be this batch of tubas with this name on them.

[bort]

Like bort said, it may be only on this run (and I wonder if it some sort of inside joke gone a wry), but showing up somewhere with that on your bell and having to explain every time would be annoying...

Or having to explain to your wife "You want to spend $6,000 for something called what??"

[jamsav]

I just visited the blog and it does state that these will actually be engraved with Big Mouth Brass. I agree with LJV, that would be a mistake. Tuba players (generally) have a decent sense of humor... But that just really seems to play into a stereotype. Not that I would let that stop me if I really dug the way a horn played... But it would probably prevent some from buying the product and just mildly annoy others. I think a more conventional name on the bell would be better. You could have a website URL of bigmouthbrass. com but I wouldn't put that on the bell.

IMHO - that would be a most unfortunate decision with a label that will already me " image challenged " .
To Barth and Geimenhardt , "What are you guys possibly thinking ? "

[SousaWarrior9]

I agree, I think the "Big Mouth Brass" thing just sounds cheesy and unprofessional. Esepecially with a product that some people aren't taking seriously anyway because they're assembled in china ( ).
+1 on all the comments made about just putting "Barth" on the bell. It sounds better and, hey it gets his name out there, why not! Plus "Barth Brass" has a nice ring to it IMO.
On the other hand, I'm glad their not going to be branded "Gemeinhardt" anymore. It leads to confusion because people know them as a flute company, and the tubas are not even on Gemeinhardt's website, either.

Wyatt "I really hope they don't put big mouth on the bell" Dozier
PS: I really want to try these things out!