Any dermatologists out there?

[csherman]

I've been fighting skin irritation problems for about 5 years now. It occurs below the bottom lip, where the mouthpiece contacts the face. I thought it might have something to do with nickel, but so far my stainless mouthpiece hasn't solved the problem (although I do love my G&W Alan Baer Original).

The irritation usually leads to a break-out in zits at that area and a lot of dead skin, and after a while it just flat-out hurts to play because of it. What do you think? Is this a skin problem or could it be too much pressure over time?

Thanks,
csherman

[hbcrandy]

I am not a dermatologist. I don't even play one on TV.

This is my suggestion from my years of experience growing up in the days when mouthpieces were only made of plated brass. The default mouthpiece was silver plated. Some of my colleagues and students were affected by skin contact with silver. When they switched to a gold plated mouthpiece, the skin irritation seemed to subside. There is no guarentee on this, but, it may be worth a try.

Are any chemists out there who can elaborate on this.

[Ben]

Are any chemists out there who can elaborate on this.

I am a chemist, I do not play on on TV. And definitely not qualified to give medical advice.

I will ask a question: Have you tried Lexan or a plastic substitute? I suspect LVJ is on to something, as SS commonly contains traces of metals for chemical resistance and hardness. Gold plated MP's are gonna be more pricy than popping in a kellyburg and testing it out for a week.

Good luck

Looks like Bloke got the jump on me

[Dan Schultz]

..... Gold plated MP's are gonna be more pricy than popping in a kellyburg and testing it out for a week.

+100. Go 'on the cheap' and buy a Kelly. If the problem subsides... you can start experimenting with more expensive options.

If you want to try something REALLY cheap... just give your current MP a couple of coats of clear fingernail polish.

It might not be the mouthpiece at all. You could simply have a problem with your lower lip staying moist all the while you are playing.

[Donn]

If you want to try something REALLY cheap... just give your current MP a couple of coats of clear fingernail polish.

What I was going to suggest, though I prefer a lurid color polish. I have dark blue and a pinkish red. Dip the rim in a small puddle of polish, dry and repeat. That ought to prove for sure whether it's the metal or not. Also good if your favorite mouthpiece has a nick in the rim, plating worn off or whatever.

[cjk]

I have had irritation and zits like you describe.

Do you actually need to shave? If so, how do you shave the area between your bottom lip and your chin? If you use an actual razor, I would suggest that you shave in the direction from the bottom lip down to the chin. Don't try to do a great job, just get it done so it looks fine. It's ok if it still feels rough. Don't try to get it super smooth.

If I shave in the direction from the chin up, it results in a smoother shave, but with significantly more irritated skin. I also often nick myself in that area and end up with little zits there. Playing the tuba on top of that will just irritate it more.

[Matt Walters]

CJK is on to something about the shaving. Had the exact same problem with just below my bottom lip. For me it was friction causing the problem. Three things combined to fix that for me.

1) I grew a beard. I keep my mustache and the area just below my bottom lip trimmed with the closest setting on the beard trimmer. Yeah, a bit of the Mennonite look but problem gone when the mpc can slide on the stubble instead of the skin.
2) When I do shave the area under my lip, I do it at night and shave down from the lip as CJK suggested. Next day I have some stubble and my overall beard hides that I'm not freshly shaven.
3) I also have learned not to play with as much pressure as I did in High School and early College years. Bigger sound with less effort now.

Find what works for you. If it was an allergic reaction, I would think it would be all over your face not the the friction point.

[Doug Elliott]

Also, try changing toothpastes. Some will irritate freshly shaven skin. Or, if you shave and then brush, try reversing the order.

It may also be something in the way you play, but I can't tell that without seeing you.

[Wu299]

I have a similar problem myself.

I dont think it is the nickel or silver or any metal, as you would feel it on lips too if you had an allergy or something. But I agree it might have something to do with shaving... Is it a good thing to put a mouthpiece on facial hair while playing?

[Tubajug]

I seem to have had the opposite problem with facial hair than those who have posted so far. I have to have a smooth face or it hurts to play. I grew a goatee last Thanksgiving/Christmas and it hurt when playing for any length of time.That and I couldn't get a very good seal around the mouthpiece. If I have just a day's worth of stubble, it really hurts if I play too long. I still only shave "down" as has been suggested, not "against the grain."

In a somewhat more direct response to the original post, how long are you playing? I found that I got zits on my bottom lip if I was playing tons and tons (like in college with marching band for 2 hours, then practicing, then ensembles, etc.) but now that I teach and don't play as much, no more zits. It might just be the moisture and blockage from the mouthpiece itself.

[Tubazilla]

I had a similar issue. There was some crap on the rim, probably oils from my skin. That was getting pushed back into my pores while I played, causing the zits. I started washing my mouthpiece out daily and I haven't had a problem yet!

[MikeW]

Consult an allergist and get tested for Nickel allergy. Or, at your own risk, tape a Nickel (coin) to your arm and see if you react. If you are only slightly sensitive, the symptoms may not show up until after the coin is removed (possibly even a few hours later), so it's safest to repeat the test over several days, starting with a few minutes, and building up to the duration of your usual practice session - of course, if you see a reaction, stop testing. If you are allergic to Nickel, the skin under the coin will turn red or show a rash. If you overdo it, you may even get blisters.

Personally, I would try a non-allergenic coating on the mpc first (nail-polish is a cheap way to try this).

If it turns out you don't have an allergy, then your last resort is to stop shaving, which is what fixed my problem (stress, not an allergy). The beard is an itchy nuisance, but as long as I keep the facial hair trimmed away from my lips, and play wet to get a decent seal, my playing is no worse than before. The trick is that when you trim the whiskers, you have to leave them just long enough to be flexible, so the mpc slides on the wet hairs without driving them back into the skin. YMMV.

[ScottM]

I have played on a mustache and a "soul patch" since college when I had a similar problem. It has never come back.
ScottM

[csherman]

I was definitely not expecting this much response in 24 hours, this is fantastic!
I'll try not shaving against the grain at the area and see what happens. There does tend to be a lot of extra moisture when I play for extended amounts of time (during a long articulated etude or something of the like) so I'll look into that as well.

As for the fingernail polish, it kind of worries me. Would it damage any of the finish? Does it come off easily?

[Donn]

Would it damage any of the finish?

No, on the contrary it will protect the plating, as long as it's on there.

Does it come off easily?

Yes, with acetone. It can take a couple runs with the acetone before it's all gone, especially if there are scratches in the rim. Easier to see with colored polish.

It was actually recommended to me at a highly regarded brass instrument repair shop, though of course that's nothing compared to a recommendation on TubeNet!

[tokuno]

I was definitely not expecting this much response in 24 hours, this is fantastic!
I'll try not shaving against the grain at the area and see what happens.

When I shave the "soulpatch" area, I feel an irritated, kind of "ingrown hair" feel, especially after a longer playing session and particularly on euphonium. I've never tried growing a full soul patch, because I can't countenance the 'growing-in' stage.
I pluck it - relatively small area that contacts the rim, doesn't take long - and I've had no further issues . . . notwithstanding my wife and kids looking a little askance.

[Mark Horne]

I find that an electric shaver is the best prep before playing for me. I'm one of those who cannot get a good seal when playing with stubble, and blades will often leave my skin a little too irritated to play right away. I also find that the electric shaver is comfortable enough to work "against the grain" without irritating the skin. For me, running the shaver around the mouthpiece contact areas an hour or two before playing is ideal.

[TMurphy]

I find that an electric shaver is the best prep before playing for me. I'm one of those who cannot get a good seal when playing with stubble, and blades will often leave my skin a little too irritated to play right away. I also find that the electric shaver is comfortable enough to work "against the grain" without irritating the skin. For me, running the shaver around the mouthpiece contact areas an hour or two before playing is ideal.

That irritation you speak of is one of the many reasons I ditched cartridge shaving, and went to a double-edged safety razor. Despite what you'd think, it's much easier on the skin, and blades are way cheaper (I haven't bought blades in close to two years: I paid $10 for 100 of them!).

[Alex C]

double post

[Alex C]

This year, a student of mine has had a reaction like the OP's while playing on a gold-plated mouthpiece. The gold plating is in good shape and not worn but he is showing irritation and maybe zits. I thought gold was hypo-allergenic. This one is in progress.

A former student, now in college, had a dermatology issue but his symptom was severely chapped lips. This began to occur during the 10th grade. You have never seen lips as badly cracked and bleeding as his were.

We switched mouthpieces from silver to plastic with no improvement. He changed everything at one time or another: diet, toothpaste, foods, even laying off the horn... nothing worked. Eventually he got relief from A&D Ointment but a coating of the stuff does nothing to help your playing.

The best we can determine, he finally started to outgrow it. In his early college career, he now uses only a small amount of A&D when he plays. No clue what it was.