mack tubas

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Wyvern
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Re: mack tubas

Post by Wyvern »

jsmn4vu wrote:Having said that, I would LOVE to see the results of a double-blind* comparison between the two. (Sounds like a great university project, no?)

*Double-blind means that none of the auditioners, players nor those handing the horns to the players knows which horn is which.
I am not sure how that could be managed, but would be very interesting!

I would also like to try with the compensated euphonium v Yamaha, compensated Eb v Besson 981, rotary CC v Miraphone 186 and 5/4 front piston BBb v Miraphone 1291.

If any universities in Michigan would like to try such an experiment, Wessex Tubas would be happy to make available the Chinese manufactured horns for the play comparison. Could even record for TubeNeters to hear for themselves.
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Re: mack tubas

Post by Dan Schultz »

jsmn4vu wrote:..... Having said that, I would LOVE to see the results of a double-blind* comparison between the two. (Sounds like a great university project, no?)

*Double-blind means that none of the auditioners, players nor those handing the horns to the players knows which horn is which.
Now.... just how in the heck would you do that! I guess you could bundle each horn in gunny sacks. But then.... you would have to quantify the type of gunny sack, too. :D
Dan Schultz
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Re: mack tubas

Post by jsmn4vu »

TubaTinker wrote:Now.... just how in the heck would you do that! I guess you could bundle each horn in gunny sacks. But then.... you would have to quantify the type of gunny sack, too. :D
It'd be sufficient to blindfold the players, put them behind a screen, and use PE majors (under a vow of silence) to handle the horns. 8)
John in Atlanta

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Re: mack tubas

Post by MackBrass »

dmeacham5 wrote:if you have had Great experiences or very bad experiences or have any concerns about Mack please pm and tell me your thoughts and opinions if you don't want to say it on an open forum.
I was not going to chime in on this but I will because this is something I am very proud of. As to the question of anyone having a bad experience with me or what I sell? the answer is no, no-on on this forum or anyone who has purchased from me has had a bad experience with what they have purchased or with the customer service I provide. If a customer is not happy, I am not happy and I wont be untill they are completely satisfied. One thing I pride myself in is how I treat my customers and making sure that the fit of the instrument they are looking at matches what they are looking for. My approach is that of a fellow musician and teacher, not a sales guy sitting behind a counter that has no idea what they are talking about or stocking on their shelves.

There is a questbook on my website that people have signed letting others know of their experience, I do not filter these, I post them all as they come in. I also have many Youtube demo videos that tell a clear story of how these instruments play and to help allow others in making an educated decision on their purchase. http://www.youtube.com/user/hthomasmcgrady?feature=mhee" target="_blank" target="_blank

There is one thing that I find very interesting and that is how diverse opions can be on any specific model of any type horn. Case in point, I just posted this demo video of the piccolo trumpet played by Brian Strawley the Assistant Principal of the Richmond Symphony, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvzljrMh" target="_blank" target="_blank ... plpp_video

The horn was good enough for Brian to buy and demo for me, but I just had a different customer leave me a message that he was sending one back, not sure as to the reason, but that’s OK because everyone is different. We have sold over 315 instruments this year and the piccolo will be only our third return.

As to a blind test, it’s all about the player not the horn they are playing. I would love to perform a blind test for any of the tubas I carry for all to hear but the best thing I tell people is to try it for themselves and leave your mind open as you just might be very surprised. Is there a difference between the original and the copy? Maybe, but is the difference worth 5-15k, heck no. If someone has the bread to spend on something that runs 10k or more, go for it. Will it sound better? Not sure about that because again, it’s the player that makes the horn, not the horn that makes the player.
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Re: mack tubas

Post by Dan Schultz »

mctuba1 wrote:... As to a blind test, it’s all about the player not the horn they are playing........ again, it’s the player that makes the horn, not the horn that makes the player.
Really!?
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Re: mack tubas

Post by Michael Bush »

TubaTinker wrote:
mctuba1 wrote:... As to a blind test, it’s all about the player not the horn they are playing........ again, it’s the player that makes the horn, not the horn that makes the player.
Really!?
I thought that was as close as anything comes to being TubeNet orthodoxy...?
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Re: mack tubas

Post by PMeuph »

I have chimed in my opinion in other threads, but it's seems like no one has hinted at this yet so I'll add it in.

I've purchased 6 tubas in the last year. :shock: All of them used. In my quest for looking for a new tuba, I strongly considered going to buy one of the 3+1 EEb from a various sellers of them. Two sellers in the US made the top of my list. Jim Laabs is closer to my location (would cost less for shipping) but Mack has a better reputation, service and answered all my questions promptly. Tom, was even willing to change his order last minute to accommodate me. Ultimately, I decided I would pass.*

Why?
To me, being sorta young, cheap and with a very modest income, I view all my purchases as a investments. New tubas are not investments, they are liabilities. If you buy a new tuba, you will unlikely be able to sell it for the price you paid for it. As such, If someone were to need cash quickly, they would have to take a loss on these instruments. The amount might not seem like much ($200-300, maybe) but when one adds to that, the costs of repairs, maintenance, mouthpiece purchases, lubricants, cleaning products, etc. The loss might be more substantial. With a used horn,(assuming it was purchased at a reasonable rate) one can easily sell it a price that covers all the money put into it. One could even add the cost of inflation to the value of a used tuba.


Ultimately, I ended up buying an B&H EEb off of eBay. The price was good, but it was over $1000 more than I would have paid for the Mack EEb. However, I feel that in 5 years if I decide to sell it I could sell it for $500 more than I paid for it to match inflation and repairs/modifications that I might want. The Mack tuba, in 5 years, will not sell for more than a new one will cost at that point. It will probably have to be at least $200 less than a new one. All that money will be lost. Will it be a big loss, probably not (Maybe $400-500?). But, to me, any loss is a loss. Some people consider Tubas as hobbies, they have the money and they don't mind putting it in. Some people have full that jobs and they can afford the luxury of buying all the tubas and accessories they want. I'm not in that situation yet.

I doubt this will be the only tuba you will ever buy. If you decide to buy a tuba, choose wisely, you probably don't have hundreds of dollars that you can throw out the window. That said, bad purchases can most certainly be made with used horns.

My Advice: Look at some used horns, contact some of the repairmen and sellers of used horns on this board. Try more tubas (Including the Mack ones). Ask around (local tuba players, trombone players, high school teachers, community bad members) If you approach people politely and with some kind of recommendation(from a teacher), some local people might be willing to let you try their horns. No two horns will be identical, but I would not buy a $1000+ tuba without at least some kind of idea as to how it might play. Ultimately, you might want to invest in a trip to one of the conferences where many instruments will be displayed.


*In the spirit of full disclosure, I must say that being in Canada poses an extra challenge for buying horns. Any new horn almost always has a $500 price added to it if it comes from the US. Shipping is about $300-400 through courier services (UPS, FEDEX, DHL, etc) (Greyhound doesn't cross the border and driving 16 hrs roundtrip to the closest US station isn't economical for me) Customs and taxes add another 10% where I live. 5%-15% in other provinces. That doesn't add up to a price tag that I could view as an investment.

If I lived within reasonable distance to Mack brass I might view it differently. I might even own a Mack EEb. In reality, I don't and I really like the B&H EEb.
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Re: mack tubas

Post by jamsav »

TubaTinker wrote:
KiltieTuba wrote:Here... I've done your work for you...... (clip).... Next time, as there probably will be, try using the ADVANCE SEARCH

Or, since this is practically the same thread as your other one, just add to an existing thread!
Dang, Kiltie! You're gettin' almost as mean as The Elephant!
Plus 1 - Kiltie - it could be a troll on the other end or it could be a knuckled headed , but honest and enthusiastic kid !
Ain't it easier to be nice or just ignore if it upsets you ?
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