Since the bell was missing I can't be 100% sure it's an Alex

[shinytuba7]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALEXANDER-4-4-B ... 3f1dec7642

[TheHatTuba]

What is it? Kinda looks like a king 1291, but some things are off (linkages, thumb ring, paddles, amount of nickel silver, etc)

[EdFirth]

It's a King Monster Bass. The valveset was made by Alex. They've alsoswapped out the original spatulas with string linkage for more conventional stuff. I just bought it.I own one now with a taller Kanstul replacement bell and it's a real winner. So now I have the two different raincatchers and the bell front with plenty of tuning slide to work with. I do believe that the C version sported a 16ish upright bell.Happy Happy Joy Joy. Ed

[Dan Schultz]

It's a King Monster Bass. The valveset was made by Alex. They've alsoswapped out the original spatulas with string linkage for more conventional stuff. I just bought it.I own one now with a taller Kanstul replacement bell and it's a real winner. So now I have the two different raincatchers and the bell front with plenty of tuning slide to work with. I do believe that the C version sported a 16ish upright bell.Happy Happy Joy Joy. Ed

Good eye, Ed!

Yup... that's a King body and the same valve sections that's on my King 'pit' model. I've often thought those valve sections were make by Alexander because the key that locates the stop arm to the rotor is a small dowel rod.... like Alex used on their F horns. However... I've been told by numerous folks that King made their own rotors. It's an interesting design inasmuch as the rotors are assemblies rather than machined from solid brass.

[Dan Schultz]

There's a reason I corrupted the link.

It looked like some King/Cerveny/Miraphone con-glob-eration to me.

That horn was probably put together by Borodi Music near Cleveland. The seller is John Robinson. They are both descent dealers with the emphasis on 'bright and shiny'.

[Mikelynch]

This is interesting. If the horn came from Borodi music, I probably owned that horn once--for a few days... At that time, it did not play well at all. Could there be two like that?

And though it looked like a King (but for the mechanical linkages), the arrangement of tubing was similar to my Kings (which were pretty consistent with one another), but always off. It seemed puzzlingly then to me that it could look that much like a King, but be so different.

In that incarnation it played so badly I sent it back. Glad to hear it works better now for you, Ed.

[Dan Schultz]

This is interesting. If the horn came from Borodi music, I probably owned that horn once--for a few days... ....

Mike... I modified my post to read "was probably put together by Borodi Music". I say that only because I know John Robinson has a lot of work done by George Borodi.

[kingconn]

I used to have one of those monster BBbs made in 1936. This horn looks smaller to me. Mine would have swallowed a miraphone bell. Any way how does this one play?

[Pappajohn52]

Many thanks to Ed for solving the mystery on this one. (and of course for buying it!) According to Ed, they only made around 100 of these.

Re: the questions on the valve set and the nickel tubing vs the brass tubing found on most Kings with rotary valves, HN White did import a few valve sets from Alexander to get started with rotary tubas. Later ones were made in the H.N. White factory with brass tubes, etc. either because it was their original intent to make their own or because of the political changes in Germany in the late 1930's. The linkage was mechanical when we got it and Dan is correct, George Borodi did the restoration work. I've been using George for over 10 years for restorations for myself and band members in the 3 adult concerts bands i work with.

I'm doing "Tubby the Tuba" this fall with one of the adult concert bands I work with (co-direct and play lead bone). I played the solo on this horn to play test it and was very impressed with how it plays. The smaller (and shorter) Miraphone bell gives a nice more focused tone than the original large raincatcher would have. Has a nice full low register and a surprisingly light and easy upper register. It flew up to the high Eb in the solo and could have stayed up there all day.

[EdFirth]

The horn plays OK now and the valves are incredibly out of line. I haven't made time to get it to my repair friend but that could be the source of the slight squirreliness. The Mirafone bell sits WAY down in the throat. King did make a short model of this horn, there's one in Vince's Historic Collection @ the Tuba Exchange and I've seen the ad with pictures. This horn is something like the current King(2341) compared to the former detachable bell King of the same number in it's current incarnation. The valveset is different than either of the two here in town, one being mine, and the non string linkage is quite good. So I don't know if this came from the factory with these valves or not. The valve tubing seems to be original and is the same bore and wrap as the one I already owned except that the fourth valve tubing is a litle bigger. It also has the straight up and down valveset like mine as opposed to the slanted valveset on the other one in town(like a Meinl Weston) others I've seen. It's also lighter than mine without the bell. So we'll see how it goes when the valves are alligned. Other than that it is in great shape and, like I alluded to earlier, having both the short and tall piston horns myself, the differences between the tall and the short are consistant. The short ones seem(mabye because the bell is so close to my head) to have a faster response and are more comfortable to sit with. Anyway, it might be making some appearences on Disney's Candlelight Orchestra this year. regards, Ed

[Dan Schultz]

The horn plays OK now and the valves are incredibly out of line.....

Ed.... my 'pit' model (which I think has the same valve section as your horn) had BIG problems with the bumper plates. I actually had to elongate the screw holes in the plates (yes... ALL of them) to get the alignment correct. I never rely on the markings in the center of the rear bearing plates and rotor axles until I verify them with a borescope. The bumper plates on my horn have very deep pockets for the bumpers. The horn didn't play worth a damn when I brought it home.

By-the-way... those extra strings go down to the waterkeys. Can't reach 'em while my lips are on the mouthpiece! King didn't have everything completely figure out!

Also.... I think the jury is still out whether King actually made their own rotors or had them manufactured in Europe. My horn is one of the 'early' ones... made 1933/34-ish.

[Pappajohn52]

Nice job slotting the rotor stop plates Dan. Probably because I'm a euphonium player, I've always preferred pistons over rotors. Played 4V comp Besson in high school and an MW in college. Got a satin silver Besson now.

[EdFirth]

Just thought I'd post a follow up for anyone that's interested. We who play tuba, and all brass foe that matter, are very lucky to have an incredibly fine repair tech and a good friend to all in Tom Treece. He is also a very fine tuba player as well as one of the best read historians of the instrument, especially as far as construction , I have ever met. He had this horn for a day or two and made some interesting observations.The body is a Bb King Monster bass of indeterminate date of manufacture. The valveset is Amati/Cerveny(yes, Bloke nailed it again) and is a scooch smaller than the original. The paddles have the springs woven through them like on the originals Tom and I both have original ones.The slide, with the exception of the fourth, match the valve bore and are wrapped just like the originals. The leadpipe has been altered to match the valveset. Tom was very impressed with the care and workmanship as this was no small task. The horn came into Borodi music 15 years ago for an overhaul, without a bell set up like this. He thinks the Mirafone bell is from a 190. It wasn't anything to write home about when it got here as far as playing but now with the valves tightened up and alligned it is really good. The short bell makes it easier to hear and the sound is Dark. It is reminescent to me of the difference between a Piggy and a Kaiser C Cerveny or a current King form the taller two piece model. So somebody out there made a great Franlen horn. That's about all. Happy Holidays to everyone, Ed