An upright bell for Martin detachable bell tubas

[Paul Scott]

Hello All,
One of the difficulties with the great old Martin detachable-bell tubas is finding a suitable detachable upright bell. The original 20" Martin uprights are relatively rare and not all that good in my opinion (thin metal and not much resonance). The Kanstul repros can be ok if you get a good one. They have a slightly larger diameter (approx. 21") than the original Martin bells and are shorter. The metal is also a bit light.

The collar on the most common size of Martin BBb tubas is 7 and 7/8", limiting the selection of bells that can be cut and adapted successfully. Most will be too short if they're cut where they need to be for the collar. After some searching, Martin Wilk suggested a Fafner bell and so I asked him to cut one for me. The Fafner bell is just under 19" which tightens up the sound nicely, but more importantly it comes in at just the right height when cut for the collar. The pitch is just right with the Fafner plus the sound won't break up at higher dynamic levels, (a problem with both the original Martin bells and Kanstul repros).

Admittedly, Fafner bells are not cheap plus you will have to locate or fabricate a tenon to fit a Martin,but the results I have seen are just great. The top-action 3-valvers are not going for too much money and if you are willing to sacrifice a recording bell you can harvest the tenon for an upright bell. As far as putting an entire uncut Fafner bell on a Martin as a one-piece bell goes, I don't know if that would work. I've never looked into it since the detachable bell doesn't bother me.

Here are two photos showing the bell with both a side-action and top-action Martin. The proportions just look and feel right to me. Incidentally, it was amazing for me to watch Martin cut and adapt this bell for me. He's truly a craftsman. I left the bell unlacquered which accounts for some of the smudges and spots you might see.

[imperialbari]

Why not buy a tenon from Kanstul?

[EdFirth]

I've used two different Kanstul bells on mine with excellent results.And venue was the Candlelight Orchestra at DisneyWorld which involves large forces so I was pushing it pretty hard.Just my experience. And, last time I checked they are 1100 bucks plus freight.Ed

[The Big Ben]

Since Kanstul spins 'em right there in their shop, shouldn't it be possible to have one made up to the thicker spec?

The Fafner bell looks good on both of the Martins. Glad they sound good, too!

[Dan Schultz]

On that bell... please post (or email to me) the following dimensions:

- Bell flare diameter.
- Overall length.
- Circumference where the bell enters the tenon. (use a cloth tape measure.)
(You've already told me that the tenon has a diameter of 7 7/8"... which is the same as a 'Mammoth' sousaphone bell tenon.)

There is a chance that a Miraphone 1291 bell might work. Nonetheless... I would like to have the information to add to my data.

[Lee Stofer]

I must mention that there are no quality or consistency problems with Kanstul bells. Mr. Scott did receive one from me that was not sufficiently well-finished, which he returned to me, and received a refund. It was made of the York alloy, which is quite different from typical brass in its qualities and workability. I had requested an unfinished bell from Kanstul, which he supplied. I then had it engraved with a reproduction Martin engraving. Due to the metal being fairly thin, I buffed it about as much as I would yellow brass, which left it looking less-than-perfect, but I did not want to compromise the thickness of the bell. Mr. Scott returned the bell to me, and I consulted Mr. Kanstul, who told me that I should do some grinding to remove the internal ridge. I did so and it disappeared. And, over the next two hours in the buffing room, I discovered just how tough that metal is! I buffed hard-enough to buff through regular brass, but that was what it took to clean-up the engraving, and properly finish the interior of the bell. Working this metal was akin to buffing iron, but it finally did clean up and look good. I then had a request from another Martin owner for an upright bell, who bought this one and is delighted with it. The Martin reproduction bell in York alloy differs from the sweet and mellow sound of a yellow brass bell, being darker and having a bit more "bite" to the sound.

I just wanted the record to be straight, if there were any problems with a Kanstul reproduction bell, it was my fault, not that of Kanstul Musical Instruments. Also, Kanstul will not only make a reproduction bell in yellow brass or the York alloy, but the buyer can specify the bell diameter and whether it is a standard, thin-wall or heavy-wall bell. Kanstul makes the bell with a perfect reproduction bell tenon, so fitting is not a problem. And, two different Martin reproduction engraving patterns are available, and a variety of finishes.

[jimgray]

Sexy!
I bet they sound amazing...
Loving my top action Martin, same era.
How in the world do you choose which one to play?
I want dibs on the front action, should u ever sell...

I owned a fafner, and can just imagine the sound.
May need one if these bells...

Martin is a true craftsman.

[Paul Scott]

Dan,
I'll get those measurements for you asap!

Paul

[bort]

Could you have replaced the *entire* detachable bell with a Fafner bell? Did you do it like this for fit, or for the sake of keeping as much Martin "piping" as possible and just changing the bell?

[WilliamVance]

Nice! I would love to own a front action Martin to match my Martin Sousa. The front action valve section looks about the same as my sousaphone valve section. Have you had the valves rebuilt on your martins?

[Paul Scott]

I'm not sure if a full-length Fafner bell would work on a Martin. Some have suggested that the bell would have to be cut too short so that the end would match the rather massive bottom bow of the Martin.

I wanted to keep a detachable set-up because I like to use my recording bell occasionally. I also believe that there may be some sonic advantages to having the collar on the bell. The valves on both horns were rebuilt by Anderson, (Martin Wilk's unique "parasitic twin" 4th valve button can be seen on the side-action).

Incidentally I also have an original upright York bell (not York Master, but York) that has been adapted for use on the Martin as a detachable bell. It's quite good but not as good as the Fafner, in my opinion. That bell had to be cut down slightly to fit a suitable tenon but the scrap brass that created gave me an opportunity to send it out for testing. Turns out York was using 80/20 brass in its' bells at that time, (exactly what Martin was using in those days).

If anyone comes around to the North Jersey area you're welcome to stop by for a play test comparing the various bells I have for the Martin.

[Lee Stofer]

Yes, and that has been done. For several years now, Kanstul has been offering a 6/4 bell fitted to a copy of the large Conn tenon ring, so that you can have a 20" or 21" diameter bell that works quite well. These bells allow a 2XJ to be a little more agile in technical passages than with the original 24" upright bell.

I do not know of anyone else offering a ready-to-play reproduction bell for the big Conns.

[Paul Scott]

My guess (and that's what it is, a guess) is that a Fafner bell cut to be a detachable would end up being a bit too tall (and hence, flat) for the Conn. I say this because I know that the tenon for the Conn is smaller than that for the Martin, and so the bell would have to be cut longer. As for a full Fafner bell replacing the Conn stack and bell I don't know but will look into it. An interesting idea.

[Uncle Markie]

I recently used my Martin with the Lee Stofer/Kanstul bell with the Edison Symphony Orchestra and it worked great. The core of sound is really big - especially on a Veterans' Day concert playing Sousa marches in fiddle keys.

Call up Lee Stofer and get yourself an upright bell for your Martin - and play that horn anywhere you want!

Mark Heter