Need some pedagogical ideas

[MileMarkerZero]

I have a student, 8th grader. He just got 1st chair in the top honor band for the region. Pretty good player, decent sound - until he has to get above D in the staff. I can see that he has some embouchure issues. His corners push forward instead of back and down, and his upper lip protrudes WAY into the mouthpiece so that he's using almost entirely upper lip to produce sound. As he plays higher he tends to bunch up his chin as well. I have been able to fix similar issues in other students, but I'm at a loss as to how to approach this one with the combination of issues.

He's a really bright, intelligent student and responds well to imagery and analogy. But I'm stymied at the moment of how to get the concept of a good embouchure across to him. We have worked with a rim alone and looking in the mirror, but he just isn't getting over this hump. He knows that to fix this, he might have to sound bad for a while and he's prepared to do that. He's smart enough and dedicated enough to be a really special player if we can fix the issues.

I've tried getting him to move the mouthpiece down on his embouchure to about 1/3 upper - 2/3 lower and with that setting he struggles to even produce sound.

At the moment it isn't a huge issue at the level he is playing, but as I told him in lesson yesterday, we need to slay this dragon while it's still a baby.

[eupher61]

think overbite/underbite. As the pitch goes higher in range, go to an underbite. This means moving either the head or the tuba a little bit, and it can feel weird at first. But it helps redirect the air appropriately, and gives the same effect as smiling without the tightening.

[bububassboner]

Good day,
I think it might be good to not focus on how his face looks but work on his buzz efficiency. There are a LOT of players at all levels that have a strange looking playing face, including people like Arnold Jacobs. The real concern is to make sure he has a good, efficient buzz, and that he has a strong concept in his head of pitch and sound in that register. Sounds like to me he is a young 8th grader who is starting to explore the upper register. Don't worry so much on how it looks but how it sounds. Lot's of buzzing and lots of flow studies for this young lad.

[Wu299]

Being a student myself, you can pass whatever I say; though what I know is from one of best (if not the best) tuba/trombone professor in my country.

Let him buzz a lot. With and without mouthpiece. It wont happen without it, Im pretty sure. Make a slow gliss without a mouthpiece up until E or whenever his tuba playing starts having problems. If he cant do it - voila, thats the problem. Have him buzz a lot - that is what makes a fine embouchure allowing full tone in high register (at least for me and everyone around me... I heard some things are different in USA). Before you do this, explain to him what he has to do with the facial muscles (as seen in Roger Lewis´ posts here, if I am not mistaken) and explain to him what he mustn´t do.

Have him buzz a milimeter from his instrument - the way his lips touch the mouthpiece when they are at the most distant point, the way he can feel the mouthpiece, but it still feels like buzzing without it (duh, I hope its possible to understand this). Again, try to play in mid - high register and see what happens.

[swillafew]

I like your signature comment about air issues; stay close to that. Most players I have ever seen have the mouthpiece very close to centered on the mouth. Dental structure might prompt moving it off the center.

The William Bell Daily Studies expanding interval program ought to be medicine for what you are describing. They were presented to me as practice for the softest to the loudest and again to the softest, and the instruction was for the sound to die away like a smoke signal. In order to do all those things, whatever has to be done to the embouchure should sort itself out directly.

[pgym]

I've tried getting him to move the mouthpiece down on his embouchure to about 1/3 upper - 2/3 lower and with that setting he struggles to even produce sound.

At the moment it isn't a huge issue at the level he is playing, but as I told him in lesson yesterday, we need to slay this dragon while it's still a baby.

I would urge caution about changing a person's embouchure/mouthpiece placement unless you have hard evidence that it's a problem. My freshman year in high school, my private teacher (who was also the band director) damn near completely wrecked my embouchure by making me switch from a 2/3 upper, 1/3 lower placement to a 50/50 placement that didn't fit my facial structure. Fortunately for me, he was canned at the end of the school year for knocking up the color guard captain, and my new teacher let me go back to my earlier placement. Still took 'til the middle of my senior year before I got my range and flexibility back, though.

May be worth shooting an email or a PM to Doug Elliott or Dave Wilken for a second opinion?

[Ben]

May be worth shooting an email or a PM to Doug Elliott or Dave Wilken for a second opinion?

Seconded. These gentlemen specialize in embouchure, and have helped many an individual understand how their embouchure and playing need to interact. Song and Wind doesn't fix everything if the mechanics become disruptive. There seems to be a resistance to the Reinhardt system amongst tubists: I was once a skeptic, but am very glad I took the time to learn and be open-minded.

2c

[Doug Elliott]

PM sent to the OP.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Face time. There's simply no substitute. If you can get him in a regular daily routine (no matter what it is), he will continue to get stronger and better in the extreme registers. An 8th grader simply isn't going to have much embouchure strength yet.

[pgym]

An 8th grader simply isn't going to have much embouchure strength yet.

Depends on the 8th grader and how long he or she's been playing.

Around here, kids can start band as early as 4th grade. Four years is plenty of time to develop decent embouchure strength.

[Doug Elliott]

There are different faces, and different embouchures, and the OP seems to understand that fact, so that's a good start. For someone who knows about the details of the different embouchure types it's relatively simple to determine how his face needs to work and give the right specific advice, instead of general principles that might work for most people.

Assuming the OP is in Knoxville, I have suggested to him a local person who would be a good resource for an opinion.