Why CC and not BBb?

[Tom]

And (as a complete tangent), yeah...it impresses nobody to show up to a community band rehearsal with your CC tuba years after you "studied music in college." Nobody cares. And if you really think that you're hot stuff, consider that you're playing in a community band. If you were really that great would you be playing, unpaid (or even PAYING for the opportunity) in such a group?

As you say, a complete tangent. Rafael Mendez played 3rd trumpet in a community band in his later years, and I have a number of professional musician friends who "give back" to the community by playing in a community band.

So, yeah.

No argument from me about that stuff. Same for talleyrand.

I (not a professional tuba player) have been in several such community groups that pros (both "retired" and active) used as their musical outlet for whatever reason, be it charity ("giving back") or just for a change of pace. I really wasn't referencing that group of folks with my comment.

I was more digging at the college student that gets wrapped up in the CC tuba arms race, buys a big, fancy CC tuba, graduates from college, takes a different career path after realizing that the audition life is a long, hard road, has several years go by and then uses the community band setting to relive his/her glory days by joining up and attempting to be a big fish by wowing everyone with their fancy instrument and copy of VW Concerto on their music stand before the start of every rehearsal. Maybe they are a great player, maybe not. But the ego is the issue. Sorry, I know it's a totally unrelated comment but is based on recent experiences I've had. It's silly. That's all. Back to our regularly scheduled topic (BBb vs. CC)

[Wyvern]

I think it depends more on the particular tuba concerned, rather than if in key of CC, or BBb.

To pose another question - why is Eb now played so little in the USA, when obvious it was used a lot in the past (York Monster, etc.)?

As you may know, the majority of tubas used in UK concert bands (and orchestras) are compensated Eb, although I personally prefer CC most of the time due to its more open low register

[Jess Haney]

I agree with the posts above about finding a horn that works for YOU. I started out in college with BBb and stuck with it because I am a british brass bandsmen, later on I bought an Eb for solo, chamber and other things...and I love it. For me Eb is a great all around horn, I use it everywhere. A couple of months I borrowed a friends 186 CC and have been playing that. Its nice and has its perks and I see how some aspects are easier, but IMO it all falls under your preference/

[jeopardymaster]

To pose another question - why is Eb now played so little in the USA, when obvious it was used a lot in the past (York Monster, etc.)?

Mystifies me too, Jonathan. I'd rather play a good Eb any day than an F.

[LCTuba89]

- Sounds like you haven't played (m)any good Bb tubas?

Iv'e played quite a few good BBb tubas, I just prefer CC. That's all.

[1895King]

I started on Eb in the 8th grade back in the spring of 1961; when I got to high school that fall all they had were BBb sousaphones so I had to start over. I played BBb exclusively all though high school and college. After I completed college I decided I wanted to try Eb again; I now own 6 Eb uprights, 2 Eb helicons, and 1 BBb upright. For the last couple of years, I've pretty much stayed with Eb's. I just happen to prefer them but I still get tangled up with fingerings from time to time. It all boils down to what you're comfortable with. By the way, I did have a CC for 2 or 3 years and I ended up trading it for an Eb Cerveny which I no longer have either.

[opus37]

I was upgraded to tuba in 1965. All they had at high school were BBbs, so that is what I learned. Fast forward to 1978 where my wife purchased an Eb for $20. I had not played for a long while so I started over on Eb. That is what I play exclusively now because I'm too lazy to learn other fingerings. I likely would just get confused anyway. I have found that my Eb is very welcome in community bands because I can play the upper parts or lower parts on all the old marches which adds to the band. I play solos and in quintets. The Eb is comfortable in those cases too. So, I'm an advocate of the Eb being an all around horn.

[Jason Roamer]

My BBb v CC story is humorous, possibly. I switched to CC my sophomore year of college, because the school I attended ran out of large BBbs. They were all 186s, and all I really learned from the experience is that I prefer the sound and feel of that CC 186 to those of most BBb 186s. I no longer define either horn as "large."

Now my primary horn is a large B&S F, which suits my purposes just fine.

[Rick Denney]

Now, I am questioning the supreme knowledge inparted to me so many years ago as a college freshman. Why is CC the standard for the professional, and not the BBb?

Firstly, there is no supreme knowledge. There are only preferences and opinions.

Secondly, the standard to which you refer only exists in America. Most German tuba players play Bb and F tubas and seem to manage those sharp keys just fine.

Advice to those who think this matters: play what you want to, and play it well. Nobody will give a hoot how long the tube is is you put the good product out there.

But college kids who want to stick with Bb because they are too lazy to learn C fingerings may be saying something important about their character.

Rick "Summarizing decades of silly arguments" Denney

[Todd S. Malicoate]

This thread makes me sad. The idea that it is somehow "easier" to play in sharp keys on a particular key of tuba only points to the laziness of those who would play the instrument.

Short point being, if you're not fluent in all 12 keys, don't worry about what key of tuba you have. You won't be working.

[jeopardymaster]

This thread makes me sad. The idea that it is somehow "easier" to play in sharp keys on a particular key of tuba only points to the laziness of those who would play the instrument.

Plus 31/32. While I don't think it's what was meant, the truth is that it IS easier to play IN TUNE in some keys than in others - some keys just lay better intonation-wise (response-wise too) on a CC, some better on a BBb. That does NOT relieve one from the obligation to work up one's technique and musicianship to bridge the gap. Same goes for F and Eb. And on that I'll wager we agree 32/32.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

While I don't think it's what was meant, the truth is that it IS easier to play IN TUNE in some keys than in others - some keys just lay better intonation-wise (response-wise too) on a CC, some better on a BBb. That does NOT relieve one from the obligation to work up one's technique and musicianship to bridge the gap. Same goes for F and Eb. And on that I'll wager we agree 32/32.

Yep. I doesn't matter a fig what "lays" better. A musician's job is to overcome such barriers through dedication until mastery is achieved (read...never).

It's said that Wynton Marsalis, as a young player, would practice for hours in a corner of his junior high school band room on something as mundane as attacks. How many of us are willing to dedicate that much of ourselves?

[doublebuzzing]

Most people say Berlin and Vienna are the best orchestras in the world. The tuba players in both of those orchestras play primarily in BBb. That seems as good an argument as any that you don't need a CC for an orchestra gig.

[Wyvern]

Most people say Berlin and Vienna are the best orchestras in the world. The tuba players in both of those orchestras play primarily in BBb. That seems as good an argument as any that you don't need a CC for an orchestra gig.

I don't think that is strictly true. In Germany and Austria they use equally BBb OR F tuba as appropriate for the music. They would no doubt for example use an F tuba for Brahms, or a BBb for Prokofiev.

The thing about CC over BBb is that the former is a more multi-purpose tuba to cover a range of applications which is why CC may be better for orchestral use where the tuba part's register and range of expression can range substancial in just one piece (just look at the score for Elgar Cockaigne Overture). Eb is also a very good multi-purpose tuba - in fact most players in the UK would say in its 19" bell 3+1 compensated form, the best to cover it all. Both BBb and F tubas are more specialist tools, better for certain applications

If you mostly play in band, then a BBb tuba is ideal, as the bass part in bands tends to be in the middle to low register most of the time and its breath is ideal for putting foundation under band.

I think it is mistaken to think of using BBb for flat keys and CC for sharp - you can play any key of music on any tuba with practice.

I have often wondered if better from a musical point of view to play multiple tubas to provide a variety of tones, or to concentrate all practice on one to become as competent on that specific tuba as possible...and have never reached conclusion. No doubt having variety and choice is more fun.

[doublebuzzing]

Most people say Berlin and Vienna are the best orchestras in the world.

If that is the basis for your statement, it is ... debate-able, especially the "most" part.

The tuba players in both of those orchestras play primarily in BBb.

Really? Do you know who they are? Do you know them?
Did you read something somewhere,
or sometime someone "told you" this?

When asked if you know who they are,
did you do a "quick google search" to prepare a retort?

Pros play whatever works for the needs of the night's gig.
It has little to do with preference, argument, or majority rule.
Tradition, perhaps. But traditionally, most orchestral
tuba players are male, does that mean females are inferior?
Of course not. And your reasoning is exactly the same.
Certainly, the best way to know what a pro uses, prefers,
or doesn't use (or prefer) is to ask them, not the TNFJ.

The nice thing about the recurring dumb troll threads
is they often bring out the dumb in (to use your language) "most people",
myself included.

I don't personally know them, no. Do you have to know someone personally to know that they play BBb tubas? Usually you get information through reading/seeing. I don't know Adrian Peterson personally either but I know he wears Nike cleats. You can correct me if I'm wrong and if they, in fact, play in CC. However, I don't think there was anything in that statement to argue about. I said "primarily in BBb" which doesn't exclude playing in F as well. If you have information that they now play in CC, let us know (that may surprise some).

Since my main point may have slipped past you, I will restate it: Either CC or BBb work perfectly fine in an orchestra and if anyone says you have to play in CC (fellow students, friends, professors), tell them that that may be an American bias (i.e. it is just as customary to use BBb in orchestras in Germany than it is to use CC in America so they obviously both work just fine).

[k001k47]

Why tuba and not tenor tuba?

[Bob Kolada]

Why tuba and not tenor tuba?

Still crossing my fingers for a 4+2 rotary valve JinBao euph (they make all the parts, and a rotary valve set would fit just fine on the comp body without any length issues)!

Just to keep on with the sensitive issues!

[Lectron]

Most people say Berlin and Vienna are the best orchestras in the world.

If that is the basis for your statement, it is ... debate-able, especially the "most" part.

The tuba players in both of those orchestras play primarily in BBb.

Really? Do you know who they are? Do you know them?
Did you read something somewhere,
or sometime someone "told you" this?

When asked if you know who they are,
did you do a "quick google search" to prepare a retort?

Pros play whatever works for the needs of the night's gig.
.
.
.
The nice thing about the recurring dumb troll threads
is they often bring out the dumb in (to use your language) "most people",
myself included.

In Berlin one are required to play the BBb

That does not mean both, when both play, play the BB, but at MOST time
at least one is touting the rotary BBb

That's just the name of the story.......

Next time they have an opening you could always audition

[Lectron]

If you want a gig in an American symphony orchestra you must play a C tuba,
if you want to play in a German orchestra you must play a Bb tuba,
and if you want to be a member of Hells Angels you ride a Harley.

It's that simple.

lol

And how about that Swiss riding a Harley in US touting an Eb?

[bearphonium]

If you want a gig in an American symphony orchestra you must play a C tuba,
if you want to play in a German orchestra you must play a Bb tuba,
and if you want to be a member of Hells Angels you ride a Harley.

It's that simple.

lol

And how about that Swiss riding a Harley in US touting an Eb?

Yeah, but is he patched?