Trombone mouthpiece recommendation

[jeopardymaster]

What is the largest tenor shank trombone mouthpiece out there? I'd like to find something approaching a bass trombone cup that will fit on a tenor shank, but something that would be available in the ordinary course of business, not a custom job (unless that could be done relatively inexpensively. Any recommendations?

[tbn.al]

I once had a Shilke 58 with a tenor shank but I don't know if it was a special order or what. It wasn't a very good combo. Bach only goes to a 3 and Shilke to a 53 in the catalogue. Warburton goes to a 4 in a tenor shank, but will make you whatever you want at a reasonable price.

[jsmn4vu]

Tenor trombones come with large and small receivers. I've got a 1-1/2G large shank mouthpiece which is definitely in bass trombone territory.

[Lingon]

What is the largest tenor shank trombone mouthpiece out there? I'd like to find something approaching a bass trombone cup that will fit on a tenor shank, but something that would be available in the ordinary course of business, not a custom job (unless that could be done relatively inexpensively. Any recommendations?

For example Curry, Greg Black and I believe Doug Elliot has pieces the size of bass trombone with tenor, small, shank. Even Bach has a 1.5G with small shank but that is a special order, wait forever... If your tenor trombone has a large receiver then almost all bass trombone mouthpieces will fit mechanically. However I doubt that such large pieces will be a good match for a tenor trbn.

[Doug Elliott]

I make quite a few mouthpieces that fit that description and actually play well, but I'd want to discuss exactly what purpose you have in mind so you get what you really need. Not just "the largest tenor shank trombone mouthpiece out there." I can put a tenor trombone shank on a tuba mouthpiece, but I'm sure that's not what you need.

[tbn.al]

He has an Olds Recording Tenor trombone. I was sure that was what he was asking about. That is a dual bore .495/.510 horn. I can guarantee that it will play horribly with a Shilke 58 tenor shank in it. Haven't tried any other big mps in mine. Once was enough. Forgot to include you in the list of mp makers, sorry.

[Doug Elliott]

I have an Olds Recording too. I still don't know vwhat purpose he has in mind. A very large rim, but still using it as a tenor? I play on that sort of thing myself. Or is it an F attachment Recording and he wants to play low parts on it? What is his "normal" setup, both mouthpiece and horn? Is he primarily a tenor player, bass, euphonium, or tuba? All of these things (and more) need to be considered in order to recommend something that will do the right job.

[jeopardymaster]

Actually not for the Olds but for the King marching baritone. It has the same size receiver as the Olds or of, say, a King 3B - not that of a large bore tenor (say, Conn 88H) or bass trombone. Biggest tenor shank MP I have is a Bach 3, was thinking something a bit bigger might be possible.

[Doug Elliott]

Almost anything is possible... You still haven't said how big or why. Can you answer the questions I posted?

[jeopardymaster]

Doug, I would be interested in putting as much as a Bach 1 1/2 G equivalent in my King marching baritone. The instrument has been modified - Dan Schultz added the F valve of a Conn 50H. And you have quite a bedside manner there.

[Doug Elliott]

I should have noticed your instrument list... you're most likely primarily a tuba player who also plays other low brass, and any tenor mouthpiece feels too small, but you really don't want a bass trombone mouthpiece, you just want that sort of rim size on a tenor cup.

Depending on how much time you spend on euphonium or bass trombone, I would probably recommend the same rim size that you use on one of them. Put a tenor-depth cup on it and you're in business.

My small shank pieces that would work:

SB series 108, E, E4
SB series 108, G, G4
LB series 110, E, E4
LB series 110, G, G4

The SB 108 rim is about the size of a 1-1/2G. The LB 110 is a little bigger but not as big as a 1-1/4G.
The E cup is sort of a medium depth tenor cup; a G is a little deeper, about like a 5G.
If you wanted to go with a deeper cup, an I cup with I4 shank would also work; about as deep as a 2G, 4AL, or 51D.
These are all small tenor shanks with open backbores that should work well on a marching baritone.

[ralphbsz]

If it is the large receiver (which is probably not common on a small bore trombone): Dennis Wick makes tuba-sized mouthpieces with large trombone sized receivers. I think they are sold as "british style tuba receiver" shank mouthpieces. A bass trombone and euphonium player who works in my office uses a tuba-size mouthpiece on his euphonium this way. Presumably, you can also get euphonium-size mouthpieces with that shank, for use on a large-shank trombone.

Now, I have no idea whether this is a good or bad idea, and whether the combination would sound reasonable or not. Only reporting that Dennis Wick makes these things.

[Donn]

Have no idea what it's like in any way, but I see Giddings & Webster makes an E-2 euphonium mouthpiece: "The E-2 is designed for players that like a wider cup, similar to a Bach 2G." (also listed as a trombone mouthpiece ... but it does claim to have a funnel shaped cup.) It's available in large, medium and small shanks. Diameter is 27mm - same as Denis Wick SM2, but I don't think that's available in small shank.

[JimR]

I recommend you contact Doug Elliott (see his earlier posts). I also use a large rim on my tenor (2Gish) and Doug has helped me understand why it works for me. My high range is better with the bigger rim then with any normal smaller tenor mouthpiece (11, 7 or 6.5).

I use a large rim with Doug's "C" cup with my 2B when playing lead; E or G cup with medium size tenor and "J" cup for my base.

Send him an email, TALK WITH HIM. He will get you pointed in the right direction and save you a lot of headaches later on.

Jim

[jeopardymaster]

opinion - based on an assumption:
I really do NOT think that "what you are asking for" is a good match for an Olds "Recording" trombone. Seriously, shove a 6-1/2AL in it (the kind you find sitting on the chalk rail in every band room in America) and blow. That having been said, of course you know your own needs better than I do.

Thanks Bloke. But I was talking about the marching baritone.