Tuba configurations in British brass bands

[Jess Haney]

So I figured its time to put a topic up for discussion.

A british style brass band I play in has dabbled with different configurations as far as numbers in the tuba section. We had 3 BBbs and 2 Ebs, and recently cut back to 2 on a part. Some of the bands over in England often have 5 tubists as well and often with 3 Ebs and 2 BBbs. I have discussed this at lenghth with a college as to why some bands make that decision and he states that 3 Ebs is not as "heavy sounding" as 3 BBbs. i am curious as to what configurations some of you have seen in your bands and if it creates an ideals sound for what you are trying to accomplish with 5 players. Or should we just stick with 4 players.

Hammer away ladies and Gentlemen

[Dan Schultz]

The Bend in the River Brass Band (Newburgh, Indiana) moved from 2 BBb and 2 EEb to 3 BBb and 2 EEb for the coming NABBA competition in Cincinnati in April. We've had a change in conductors and he likes a huge bottom end. Three years ago the 2 + 2 configuration was 'getting the hand' from the previous conductor.

The new conductor is my kind of guy but I don't really think the judges will care much as long as the three of us can stay together.

[Lectron]

We play 3 EEbs and 2 BBbs now for the nationals, usually 3 BBs and 2 EEbs

Personally I like the 3 BBb idea, but the '3rd' EEb are often doing some doubling on
the upper BBb part, being quite a bit more nimble than the usually BBb

So the 3 EEb is more to get around the technical part while 3 BBb gives a better foundation (IMO)

[oedipoes]

We have 3 EEb and 2 BBb, works fine...

[Wyvern]

In Britain it is unusual to get more than 2+2 - in fact I believe in the National Championship any more would be outside the rules

[Lectron]

I bhelieve you are wrong.

Cory played for years with 5.......Steve Sykes being the smallest lad lol

[GC]

Sometimes groups with enough players to allow substitution will switch from 3+2 to 2+3 between selections. I've seen it happen at NABBA. Rules don't allow players to switch instruments, but they do allow substitution of players.

As for whether the British allow it, I have no idea. I just googled rules for the national contest, and it specifies Bb and Eb brass only (Eb cornet, Bb cornets, flugelhorn, Eb tenor, Bb baritone, Bb euphonium, Eb bass, Bb bass, Eb trumpet specifically disallowed), puts a maximum limit of 25 on the brass and 3 on the percussion, and does not specify how many are allowed on each instrument.

I've seen statements in the past on this board that CC and F tubas have been used in the British championships, but I've seen nothing about them being allowed. Maybe somewhere else, or later . . .

[peter birch]

To answer Tanks question, if you intend to take part in contests, you should follow the rules, in Britain, this would be 2+2. if you are not, then experiment, and go with what sounds best to you, some suggest 1 tuba for every 5 players of other instruments in the band gives a good balance. The band I play has 2BBbs and has had from 2 to 4 EEbs (currently 3), not all are strong players, so that has a bearing too. If you ever get up to 6 tubas, a 3rd BBb becomes an interesting question.
The tuba line is often reinforced by the 2nd baritone and a lower euphonium part ( we won't say what the bass trombone does to it )to give a great sound if all is in balance.

[Bob Kolada]

The South Shore Brass Band always ran 2+2. Usually the other Eb was a Bb guy who didn't want to read treble clef and got to the first rehearsal five minutes before a guy with an F.

My favorite was when we ended up doing a concert of heavy overtures and I was the only Eb next to two hosses on Bb.

[Jess Haney]

Just an interesting note. I play in a summer brass band here in colorado that is like band camp, and we have as many 7 with 4 BBbs and 3 Ebs. But the whole band is oversized.

[Steve Marcus]

In Britain it is unusual to get more than 2+2 - in fact I believe in the National Championship any more would be outside the rules

With the strict rules of the National Championship and similar traditional BB contests, do they go so far as to specify that the tubas must be of 3 + 1 configuration? (Certainly they cannot specify the brand and/or model, even if certain companies sponsor individual bands and/or the entire contest itself. Could you imagine the battle of the manufacturers?)

Would they disqualify a band if a bass player were playing, say, a York Monster BBb 3-banger or a Holton 345? Would it be considered blasphemy (never mind the blend and intonation issues) if a BBb Bass player were armed with a CC tuba? (Again, this question applies only to the strictest, most traditional BB competitions. Other contests, especially those in the "uncultured" areas outside of the UK, Europe, Australia, and NZ, would probably allow such choices of weapons as NABBA currently does.)

OTOH, the judging is supposedly blind (except for other administrators). Theoretically, could someone play a sousaphone if there are no specifications of the type of tuba that is "proper and respectable" in a BB contest?

[PhilGreen]

The UK rules state the number of players in total (25 brass + percussion as required), not the configuration of each section. Bands commonly play with 5 basses, in doing so they have to drop either a cornet player or 2nd horn/bari and re-write the parts. In the European Championships I think the rules allow for more players so the above sacrifice wouldn't be required.

[Wyvern]

Would they disqualify a band if a bass player were playing, say, a York Monster BBb 3-banger or a Holton 345? Would it be considered blasphemy (never mind the blend and intonation issues) if a BBb Bass player were armed with a CC tuba??

The rules just stipulate 'Eb and EEb Bass, Bb and BBb Bass' so the York Monster, or Holton 345 would be fine by the rules, but a CC tuba (or F tuba) would be definitely NO!

Although having said that, I did hear of player using Neptune in BBb configuration pleading 'on health grounds' and got away with it

[imperialbari]

Would they disqualify a band if a bass player were playing, say, a York Monster BBb 3-banger or a Holton 345? Would it be considered blasphemy (never mind the blend and intonation issues) if a BBb Bass player were armed with a CC tuba? (Again, this question applies only to the strictest, most traditional BB competitions. Other contests, especially those in the "uncultured" areas outside of the UK, Europe, Australia, and NZ, would probably allow such choices of weapons as NABBA currently does.)

At the European Championship In Royal Albert Hall in 1978 the very good Swedish Soltuna band wasn’t disqualified for using a rotary F on the Eb part.

I am very liberal towards whatever pitch of tuba, but I have seen one band in my country using large CC tubas on all 4 tuba parts, which I found a silly idea, because the Eb parts sounded way too heavy and weren’t distinguishable from the BBb sound.

According to reports from the US it is very common that ringers bringing huge CC tubas demand the Eb parts for reading reasons. Should not be accepted.

Klaus

[Jess Haney]

I am very liberal towards whatever pitch of tuba, but I have seen one band in my country using large CC tubas on all 4 tuba parts, which I found a silly idea, because the Eb parts sounded way too heavy and weren’t distinguishable from the BBb sound.

According to reports from the US it is very common that ringers bringing huge CC tubas demand the Eb parts for reading reasons. Should not be accepted.

Klaus[/quote]

I totally agree. We have had players come in in the past with big CCs wanting to play the Eb because its an easier transpostion. They refuse to try an Eb or Bb because they feel they are "inferior" tubas, made for beginners. I just think it is funny when they try to give me crap for playing a Bb in orchestra but cant play the required horn in a brass band.