Mouthpiece for 1291

[Lectron]

I believe I've researched this more that most and certainly realize that many others have their own opinions and research...
Al Baer

Oh by all means, I believe you have.

Thou this phenomena should not be compared to the same happening with instruments actually having a gap,
there are similarities and I am in the believe that a gap simulates a less aggressive (and longer) backbore of the MP
by increasing the velocity of the air toward the leadpipe and making the eddies generated by the MP shank
walls less important.

On the tuba it has more to do with feel and 'comfort zone' than an actual tuning device.
(this would be receiver/leadpipe/MP specific)

"Lectron who uses AM shank on all his 'euro' tubas witch quite ironic leaves quite a big gap"

[bort]

Ok, I'll bite... for the average tuba player, how can we assess the gap, and decide if our current mouthpiece choices are significantly off to need to have a few thousandths shaved off? Is this something that any good repair-person can do? Or do we all need to line up at Al Baer's house one afternoon?

More seriously though, it is interesting to think about, and with the amount of variation in different tubas, having "plug and play" mouthpieces doesn't seem like a complete possibility, as much as mouthpieces that are made "close enough" for most people.

Should buying a mouthpiece be like buying a suit? Shop, pick out the one you like, and then have some tailoring/alterations done to make it the *right* fit?

In the end, I am more than certain that my downfalls as a tuba player have little or nothing to do with my mouthpiece gap. But if there's a mechanical fix to make me 1/10 of a percent better, I'm all ears.

[Lectron]

I truly believe that fit gives that li'll extra that you might feel (but no-one i the audience would be able to hear)

It's more about ' as long as it's free, why ignore it' kinda thing for me

[bort]

It's more about ' as long as it's free, why ignore it' kinda thing for me

It's only free if you know if, how, and where to grind away a few thousandths of an inch off of a mouthpiece by yourself.

[Lectron]

It's more about ' as long as it's free, why ignore it' kinda thing for me

It's only free if you know if, how, and where to grind away a few thousandths of an inch off of a mouthpiece by yourself.

That's what I'm saying

A total mismatch thou will IMO change the intended characteristics of the mouthpiece
I've found the best to go American shank on most instruments and taper it to as thin as possible
That will leave the opening to the same as most Euro, but no 'steps' down to the receiver
and less choking afterwards leaving the area much more uniform as possible with no 'bulges'

[Lectron]

Should buying a mouthpiece be like buying a suit? Shop, pick out the one you like, and then have some tailoring/alterations done to make it the *right* fit?

Actually, back in the day...

Guys like Vincent Bach and Ren Schilke thought and worked exactly like that. Their stock models were (are) starting points that needed (need) to be adjusted to the individual, their approach, and equipment, both physical and mechanical. FWIW

They couldn't agree on what the gap should be, but agreed that it mattered (Schilke close to none or minimum, Bach quite a bit)

There should be some reading about it at Shilke Loyalist

[Lectron]

Your quotes are incorrect, Lectron.

Edited...dunno how that happened

[Tubaman2365]

Thanks for the input everyone! It's interesting how such a spirited conversation has grown out of a seemingly simple question. I guess it is a testament to the level of passion some have! I learned a lot on this and other "gap" threads which this has evolved into.

One item I did not include is that when I replaced the lead pipe I asked to have an American receiver put on the 1292 lead pipe. Now I'm figuring out how to measure and make sure that is what was put on, just for my own peace of mind.

[Bondejohnson]

I swear by my Monette 94. They are spendy yes - but if you buy a 5-9K horn, don't skimp on the mouthpiece. You can find one used for "sort of" reasonable if you check around. My 2 cents....

[Roger Lewis]

I hate to be the one to throw a bucket of water on this lively discussion, but the 1291 has an American receiver on it. The 1292 has the Euro receiver. When I special ordered my 1291 I ordered it with the 1292 leadpipe, but with the smaller 1291 receiver on it and I have been very happy with how it has performed.

As Alan said, having the right sized mouthpiece is important, but the Euro shank mouthpiece in an American size receiver will actually make a true 1291 harder to play as it will not fit well at all.

Roger
Consultant and Clinician
Miraphone Corporation

[Lectron]

...but the 1291 has an American receiver on it. The 1292 has the Euro receiver.
....
As Alan said, having the right sized mouthpiece is important, but the Euro shank mouthpiece in an American size receiver will actually make a true 1291 harder to play as it will not fit well at all.

Roger
Consultant and Clinician
Miraphone Corporation

..... Please remember that the 1291 requires a EURO shank piece!
.......
Wishing everyone a great New Year with tons of progress in your future!
Al Baer

edit: reading this thread, it is quite obvious that some talk 1291 CC while others talk 1291 BBb

[Alex C]

Trumpet manufacturers and mouthpiece makers have worked with the gap on trumpets for decades. From Terry Warburton's page http://www.warburton-usa.com/index.php/ ... 3-gap-chek:

GAP too large:
Lower register becomes stuffy
Upper register may reach a "wall", above which resistance can not be overcome

GAP too small:
Lower register very free-blowing
Poor definition to the notes above high C
Lack of healthy resistance causes upper register to "airball", or wash out
There is nothing to "lean on" when coming back down from a high passage

Not all of this applies to tuba (vs screech trumpet) but the information is valid.

[Roger Lewis]

1291 = larger pipe, smaller receiver. 1292 = smaller pipe, larger receiver. The 1293 comes with both pipes and the difference between the two is quite noticeable. I've played a lot of all of these and the have been pretty consistent from the factory. I also own a 1291 BBb and it does not have a Euro receiver on it.

What it all comes down to is that you have to find a mouthpiece for the horn that matches the way you play. We all have different embouchures and different air speeds and you need to find the perfect match to the way YOU play. That's the right mouthpiece.

Roger

[Lectron]

[tubaman1019]

Try a Laskey 30H or a Schilke HII. For ME, that style of mouthpiece works very well on my 1292

[Odins dog]

I am having very good luck with a G&W Bayamo

[Tubaman2365]

Believe me, I am a big believer of regular long tone practice. I just am still looking for something to match the sound I have in my head. I'm wondering if a different mouthpiece is the answer or not. Maybe not, who knows. That's part of the fun IMO!!

To clarify, I replaced the 1291 lead pipe with a 1292 lead pipe. I also had Matt at Dillons specify to have an American receiver put on when he ordered it from miraphone, NOT Euro. Now I'm in the process of verifying that an American receiver was actually put on. I have noticed that my accuracy has improved with the new lead pipe, which is what a number of people have told me their experience was when making this switch.

Te point of my original post was to get some ideas of other mouthpieces to try, not start arguments over gap. It has been a learning experience though, so thanks to everyone for their suggestions.