Metal: Thick v.s. Thin

[TinyTubist97]

In my (very limited) experience with different tubas, ones with very thin metal seem to be the ones that can fill up a hall but also have the sweetest tone. What effects does the thickness have on sound in your opinions?

[sethbrown]

I have two horns with fairly thick metal (espcesially on my VMI) and then couple times I've played on dad's and my previous high schools which both have fairly thin metal. What I've picked up on is that it seems with a thinner metal horn the sound will be more satisfying to you, being right next to it, but with thick metal, it is going to fill the hall and produce a nice tone, but it is not going to sound like that to your ear. I mean, I know Baadsvik actually has added weight to the top of the bore on his horn.

[TinyTubist97]

So they generally fill the hall more than their thinner counterparts?

[pwhitaker]

Based on my experience with a 5/4 Rudy (thin metal) and a 6/4 Holton (thick - similar to Conn 20J) I will opine that the thinner horn does sound better up close and the thick horn really fills the room - all other things being equal.

[Donn]

Lacquered or raw brass? The effect of the lacquer might be different with thin brass, vs. thick, don't you think?

[Jess Haney]

Both of my Willsons are made with very thick metal. But one observance a colleage of mine made was between two Willson 3400s of the same model but 18 years apart. My 3400 is of the 1st generation from Marty Erickson's original design. My colleage's horn is new and much heavier horn than my 3400. The horn has been tweeked over the years of production and even though they are supposed to be the same, my horn is 3-4 pounds lighter, has a lower valve set, and different ferrels. Overall the consesus with the two identicle horns played by the same player and mp was that the heavier horn was robust and the sound was darker and carried well ( all the way to the back of the auditorium). But it lacked the subtle tone and color changes that can be made with the lighter horn. The overall findings after several hours, and exerpts was that the lighter horn proved to be a more solo horn because you could move the color and character and bend the tone. the heavier horn was better for ensemble playing and reached more to the audience and could cut through the ensemble with ease but the tone was more rigid in color. just FWIW.

[Tom Mason]

Just my opinion, but.............

I have owned both models of the King 2341. My experience has been that I can get a warmer sound on a newer one, but I can pump some sound out an older one without as much distortion.

I recall playing in a rather large church auditorium for two Christmas cantatas. I felt like I overpowered the newer horn at powerful sections, but at the same setting the older horn projected enough so that I could hear my sound in an echo off the opposite wall.

I also felt that the same results were being acheived when I compare the sound I get when I played a Cerveny 601 CC as opposed to the older 2341, or a Mirafone 186.

I believe that the position of the bell in relation to my left ear made more difference than the thickness of the metal, but I have ended up liking older model 2341's as opposed to newer ones.

I "think" that it is possible that you could make the older one sound close to being as warm as a newer one, if you use the right mouthpiece.

[4snaver]

The Science of Sound: Examining the Role ofMaterials in Musical ...
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom/07 ... -0708.html" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

See figure 4.

[TinyTubist97]

And another thing I forgot to ask, is there a difference in how well the pitches center?

[toobagrowl]

Lightweight, thin metal horns in my experience (in comparison to heavier thick metal horns):

- easy to dent (duh )
- feel alive and resonant in your hands
- sound a bit 'sweeter' and 'softer' up close, but can project well out in the auditorium
- a bit more buoyant/puffy/lighter in tone, but can still be dense/dark at the same time
- response is more 'loose'/less 'rigid'

Vintage Alexanders, Kruspe, Bohland & Fuchs, and some old Cerveny tubas more or less fit those descriptions above, imo.

I will say, though, that some thick metal/heavy horns can have some of the qualities listed above too.

Geometry (shape) of the tuba matters most though

[sailn2ba]

Pursued this thread because I love the response of my "thin metal" Cerveny. . . However, I followed the link and learned a bit about the response of my grandmother's "ladies model" violin (ivory tailpiece and bow trim, machine head tuning pegs). THANKS!