New York Bach Mouthpieces

[jacobg]

Some trombone and trumpet players are crazy about vintage Bach mouthpieces, especially Mount Vernon and New York models. Are there any tuba players who value these over any other type?
I have a New York Bach 7 mouthpiece (marked "BBb") that I was thinking of getting replated. Is it worth it? Is it worth anything?

[Lew]

Some trombone and trumpet players are crazy about vintage Bach mouthpieces, especially Mount Vernon and New York models. Are there any tuba players who value these over any other type?
I have a New York Bach 7 mouthpiece (marked "BBb") that I was thinking of getting replated. Is it worth it? Is it worth anything?

I have one of these mouthpieces, marked 7 BBb. It's in decent shape with just a little plating wear. I had it on ebay a few months ago with a starting bid of $49.95, with no takers. I'm thinking of having it refursbished just because it seems to work well with my big Martin tuba. It's worth whatever a tuba mouthpiece is worth.

I sold a gold plated Mt. Vernon Bach 3 trumpet mouthpiece on ebay about a year ago to a buyer in Japan for over $200. Trumpet players seem to have mysticized Mt. Vernon Bach equipment to the same extent that tubas players have old York tubas. Bach tuba mouthpieces don't have the same cachet.

[Ryan_Beucke]

That's silly...the only reason I could imagine one of the old Bachs having anything special is if the design is not made anymore. But that's not really a concern since you can get copies made that are more exact than you would be able to detect. Maybe it's just a collectors thing?

[Gorilla Tuba]

When trying mouthpieces for my new (used) euphonium I tried several different Bach 5GB models. It seemed silly to me, but the old Mount Vernon model did play notably better than the newer version of the same mouthpiece. I measured the rims and could not find any difference. I don't know why, but it had more presence to the sound. I had our school's trombone teacher listen to me and try it on his own horn... he had the same reaction. The difference was subtle, but we both recognized it. FWIW, neither he nor I use Bach mouthpieces.

[Joe Baker]

Doug, I'm intrigued. Was it a double blind study -- ie were neither the player nor the listener aware which mouthpiece was being played? If so, that's a valid test and worthy of some consideration. But it's sure hard to imagine that one hunk of milled brass could be that different from another from which it is copied.
__________________________
Joe Baker, who is neither a metalurgist nor a machinist, and barely qualifies as a tuba player.

[Ryan_Beucke]

I'm willing to bet the brass being used is the same or close enough to not make a difference, it is probably other factors other than the rim size making the difference. The only way to really find out would be to scan it in one of those machines they use to copy a mouthpiece and compare it to a newer model.

"Even the recent "small numbers" Bach mouthpieces are now "sought after"."

Does that mean my old small print 6 1/2 AL is going to be worth something?

[Gorilla Tuba]

[quote="Joe Baker"]Doug, I'm intrigued. Was it a double blind study -- ie were neither the player nor the listener aware which mouthpiece was being played? If so, that's a valid test and worthy of some consideration. But it's sure hard to imagine that one hunk of milled brass could be that different from another from which it is copied.
__________________________

Nope, No double blind test. We also has far too small of an "N" for valid results. I did not run a regression analysis. Heck, we didn't even ask 5 doctors.

The mouthpiece felt better to both my collegue and me. It also sounded better. I guess this far more of a qualitative case study than a fancy experiment for quantoids.

[Lew]

That's silly...the only reason I could imagine one of the old Bachs having anything special is if the design is not made anymore. But that's not really a concern since you can get copies made that are more exact than you would be able to detect. Maybe it's just a collectors thing?

I believe you hit the nail on the head with your last statement. There are certain people who want these not necessarily because of the way that they play, but as collectors because of where they were made.

[jacobg]

Ah but you guys are saying that these are not so special for playing because one can get a modern reproduction. However,
1. Buying an actual vintage mouthpiece is probably cheaper than getting a reproduction made from a vintage mouthpiece, right? Or maybe buying 5 vintage mouthpieces is cheaper than buying one and getting 4 repros. Maybe buying 1 vintage mouthpiece and getting 500 repros is the cheapest.
2. From what I've heard, Bach made each of these mouthpieces slightly different. So buying a "New York Bach 7 Reproduction" would not be the same as buying a vintage NY Bach 7, because there is no way to tell what you would be getting with the vintage piece.