Boosey and Hawkes Serial Number Q

[tuba_dan]

Hi all,

I have an old Imperial EEb that I have recently had refurbished, and it wasn't until after throwing a wad of cash into the horn that I realized there are in fact two different serial numbers printed on the horn.

The first is located on the bell, 154718, and the second, 120409, is printed on the second valve.

I have discovered another thread that seems to indicate this is perhaps normal for this type of horn, with valves being made at a separate factory and having an independent serial number to the rest of the bugle.

Any ideas or clarifications that could be made?

Also, I will post on a separate thread, but, even after the refurb on this horn, I am left feeling a little dissappointed with the valves. They are fast enough, and smooth enough, but damn the springs can be pretty noisy.

I am thinking about forking out for a fresh set of valves from Windcraft and hoping this may help. Has anyone got experience in buying new valves like this? Anything I should watch out for? Anybody know if I can place Besson spring dampeners in this instrument? Or have any other suggestions for quietening springs? Experience with plasti-dip???

Cheers,

Dan.

[imperialbari]

What about testing the way cheaper attempt of a solution first: getting some new valve springs! It is so long since I was in the market for springs, that I have no suggestions but for staying away from the Yamaha coated springs. The coating will peel off when in contact with oil. The peel may end up in undesirable places.

Klaus

[tuba_dan]

Thanks for the thought, Klaus. The springs were replaced. I have had a look under the first valve however, and it is a bit deformed and has two small cracks in it. I definitely think this is contributing to the springs not wanting to seat.

The second valve is pretty quiet, and I can get them all to be quiet with a bit of fiddling, and turning, but very quickly, the first and third valve go back to being noisy, with long spring rings or echos after the valve comes back up.

[imperialbari]

If the springs are in their original shape, that is outlining a cylinder with perpendicularly cut ends, the old trick was about making the sit firmly in the circular indentation in the bottom cap. That will do a lot agains them shifting positions.

bloke doesn’t like the Besson spring dampers. I use them on the tubas I owned when I bought some sets a decade or more ago. It might be possible to find some soft and non-porous material to cut some circular disks from. Don’t forget the center hole, or the impeded air movement will lock your valves.

Changing the valves because of potentially wrong selections of springs is wildly out of proportion, costwise.

Klaus

[Dan Schultz]

According to published serial number lists (that aren't always that accurate)...

120409 = 1925 and 154718 = 1940. What's interesting is that Boosey and Hawkes were actually two separate companies until 1934.

Those two numbers seem too wide spread to have originated from the factory that way and you most likely have a 1925 horn with a 1940 bell on it.

[tuba_dan]

Thanks, Dan.

I had found those lists, and kind of made that assumption myself, that the bell was a separate manufacture from the rest, and certainly had noticed the large time difference between the two parts. It seems the most reasonable solution.

I was just reading somewhere the other day that Distin was making the valves and labelling them with their own serial numbers, which were then sent to Boosey, or B & H who put them into horns with their own serials, hence a serial number on the valve casing and a serial number on the bell.

My only concern is that the two companies were separate, so I am wondering where that leaves me when I am searching for parts. If the main bugle and valves were in fact manufactured in 1925 by Boosey and Co, am I even playing an imperial, or something else?

[PMeuph]

My only concern is that the two companies were separate, so I am wondering where that leaves me when I am searching for parts. If the main bugle and valves were in fact manufactured in 1925 by Boosey and Co, am I even playing an imperial, or something else?

Well, I don't think you would have an Imperial made by "Boosey and Co." All the Boosey horns I have tried are usually Solbrons... The Imperials were made by Boosey and Hawkes, which was only formed in 1934. The Solbrons are very similar to the later Imperials but not identical.


..Posting pictures might help.

[tuba_dan]

Hi gang,

Thanks for the help so far.

Here are some pics of the tuba. Excuse the shoddy framing etc. I took them on my laptop.

Also, there is a pic of the valve. Opinions on whether this should be replaced?

[imperialbari]

Looks like something has been rammed into the bottom of the piston creating a surface where the springs will slip around depending on the pressure.

I live far from repairmen and cannot travel with an instrument that size. I would find a stiff plastic sheet like the side of a square food container and punch (or cut) a circular disk sitting firmly and perpendicularly to the axis giving a good support for the spring. Remember the center hole.

The tuba looked odd at first. But then I realised it had been mirrored.

Klaus

[Wyvern]

staying away from the Yamaha coated springs. The coating will peel off when in contact with oil. The peel may end up in undesirable places.

I think that problem is if you use with incompatible oil - with Yamaha synthetic oil, no problem